Shaetlan Wird o' Da Day

[Kavi Ugl]

So that's whit ahve been talkin aw these years Kavi!

 

What?.

 

[wullie m.]

Auld Germanic!

[Ghostrider]

A lot of Shetland originates from archaic English IMHO. Perhaps not too obvious from words alone, but when coupled with usage and grammar it becomes more apparent. I would argue the archaic English is probably sligtly easier for a native Shetlander to read, than for a 21st C. Englishman. A lot that's common in Shetland is nearer to archaic English than modern English is.

 

I would speculate that the culprit is the kirk, and the meenishter. The Bible written in old English and battered in to all and sundry weekly for a few centuries was bound to rub off a bit.

[wullie m.]

The Bible was written in Standard English, Shetlanders speak a Scots dialect. wullie

[MJ]

The Bible was written in Standard English...

 

Really I was under the impression most of it was adapted in Latin from Aramaic.

 

Hadn't realised folks spoke standard english back when they wrote the bible.

[Ghostrider]

The Bible was written in Standard English, Shetlanders speak a Scots dialect. wullie

 

In the standard English of the day maybe, which is archaic English now. "Go forth and..." would not emit from a BBC newsreader's lips in 2010 in the normal run of things, but "geen furt an...." is normal Shetland.

 

Shetland today probably is best described as a Scots dialect, as Scots, or derivatives of Scots probably is the majority proportion of it, but there's Norn, and bits and pieces of Germanic/Dutch, French and whatnot rattling around in it too. As I said, from words alone its not always very obvious, but it becomes far more apparent in usage, grammar etc. I have extreme difficulty understanding Scots, not because of the actual words used, they're easy enough, but because of how they are used, much of it becomes a mish-mash to me as its jumbled up and back to front to my Shetland ears.

[wullie m.]

MJ, educated English folk did, the Bible was late in appearing in Scots. God of course being English,the Bible was accepted in Scotland for want of anything else. "Go forth and prepare for Government", I heard that at the last election. As for French/Dutch/Germanic etc', Scots has all these and they went with the Scots settlers to Shetland along with the surnames. The concentration on Norse and neglect of Scots, is like saying you're descended from one grannie but not the other. As for finding Scots difficult, I'm a Glaswegian and can understand Caithness, Aberdeen, Ayrshire, ony variety in fact, including Shetland. I've never heard of Shetlanders experiencing difficulty in the language department, when moving to the mainland, monoglot Gaels managed fine. "Would you like a drink?" is seldom misunderstood. wullie.

[DePooperit]

The Bible was written in Standard English...

 

Really I was under the impression most of it was adapted in Latin from Aramaic.

 

Hadn't realised folks spoke standard english back when they wrote the bible.

 

Actually, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew with a few bits in Aramaic, and the New Testament was written in Greek, although Jesus would have spoken Aramaic, and probably some of the writers of the NT would have had Aramaic as their first language.

 

The point here seems to be the idea that characteristics of Shetland dialects stem from the Bible. But that doesn't follow, because while the Bible was being read to Shetlanders it was being read to the English as well.

[Ghostrider]

MJ, educated English folk did, the Bible was late in appearing in Scots. God of course being English,the Bible was accepted in Scotland for want of anything else. "Go forth and prepare for Government", I heard that at the last election. As for French/Dutch/Germanic etc', Scots has all these and they went with the Scots settlers to Shetland along with the surnames. The concentration on Norse and neglect of Scots, is like saying you're descended from one grannie but not the other. As for finding Scots difficult, I'm a Glaswegian and can understand Caithness, Aberdeen, Ayrshire, ony variety in fact, including Shetland. I've never heard of Shetlanders experiencing difficulty in the language department, when moving to the mainland, monoglot Gaels managed fine. "Would you like a drink?" is seldom misunderstood. wullie.

 

The "Scots" I'm referring to is a la Burns, which seems to be what Scotland pushes as "Scots". That said, Doric and Glaswegian I can make nothing of, I can pick out maybe every second or third word, if I'm lucky, but nowehere near enough to maintain a meaningful conversation. Proof of the point, when I attempt a conversation with your average Scot, we both quickly default to English, as they can no more understand my Shetland as I can undertsand their Scots. Which seems a very strange situation for two tongues which are supposedly closely related.

 

To get back to Burns style Scots, its not understandable, take the following line.....

 

"Ye wee fleekit coorin tim'rous beastie".

 

In Shetland it would be, as best as I can do, "Du peerie mootie ??????? coorin ???????? craitur".

 

What is "fleekit"? I've always assumed it equated to the Shetland "afflickit" meaning nervous/jumpy/scared/frightened, however I've heard others speculate that its actually "fleckit", meaning random splatches of contrasting colours on an animal, on account of it being a field mouse with a dark upper and white belly. "Tim'rous", I have no clue, the nearest in Shetland is "timir", meaning unable to sing, which would hardly seem appropriate.

[Ghostrider]

The point here seems to be the idea that characteristics of Shetland dialects stem from the Bible. But that doesn't follow, because while the Bible was being read to Shetlanders it was being read to the English as well.

 

I would tend to be of the opinion that while modern English has moved on from the archaic characteristics through a process of evolution of the language in its entirity, they have remained within Shetland due in part probably to their isolation from the language they originated within, and partly due to the fact that they had been adopted and integrated within what is in effect a seperate language.

[wullie m.]

Wee-small, sleekit=sly,coo'rin=cowering, tim'rous= timerous, beistie=beast, noo where's the difficulty in that. What's not to understand?When your ancestors jumped off the equivalent of the P&O ferry, in the 15th century, from Leith, with good Viking names like Tulloch, Bruce, Tait etc' etc', they wurnae speakin Chinese. My own grannies folk did the reverse trip and, despite the language difficulty, fund their wey tae Glesga. A Norse a Norse, my kingdom for a Norse! wullie

[Kavi Ugl]

I'm afraid I too can't make anything of Doric or Glaswegian. The deep Glaswegian just sounds like a nasal mish-mash.

 

I was in the Bon Accord centre many years ago and the change I was to get from buying something was 1p so I just said to the young lady as she went to hand me the 1p "never du leet".

 

Needless to say she looked at me blankly until my friend pointed out to me that she couldn't understand what I was saying and that I'd have to switch to english!.

 

[wullie m.]

Never du leet=don't let on? you guys throwing your pennies aboot in Aberdeen, wonder ye wurnae killed in the rush! Of course there will be words you won't understand when speaking different dialects of the same language, Doesn't that also apply within Shetland? it certainly did when Norn was still spoken. wullie.

You guys should get oot mair!

[Kavi Ugl]

Hmm, no, "never du leet" would translate as.....yikes let me think....."don't worry about it" or "it doesn't matter".

 

[Ghostrider]

Wee-small, sleekit=sly,coo'rin=cowering, tim'rous= timerous, beistie=beast, noo where's the difficulty in that. What's not to understand?When your ancestors jumped off the equivalent of the P&O ferry, in the 15th century, from Leith, with good Viking names like Tulloch, Bruce, Tait etc' etc', they wurnae speakin Chinese. My own grannies folk did the reverse trip and, despite the language difficulty, fund their wey tae Glesga. A Norse a Norse, my kingdom for a Norse! wullie

 

The difficulty firstly is that some printed versions of that contain "fleekit", not "sleekit". I'm not entirely happy with sleekit/sly being used there, as I'd not readily describe, or identify with a mouse using the term, but it probably is correct given the meaning of "tim'rous". Secondly, we do not use the word "wee" at all, plus we use a number of terms to mean "small", they vary depending on the context and relativity of the smallness being described, peerie, peerie-mootie, mootie, minty, peerie-minty etc. We do not use "beast" to describe small animals, we use craitur (creature). Tim'rous/timerous, we do not use, now that I know what its supposed to be I can see it equates to the Shetland afflickit.

 

So, the Shetland version would be: "Du peerie-mootie sleekit coorin afflickit craitur". Two from six are common with Scots, doesn't seem a high ratio for sister dialects to me.

 

Few if any of my ancestors jumped off the North Boat as far as I can tell, most probably jumped off a Dutchie at Grutness or possibly came via Caithness and Orkney after having waded their way through sundry English and Scots over a few centuries after having crossed from Normandy. There may even be a hint that some were here before the Norsemen. Point taken though, a lot of Shetlanders did jump off the North Boat, and brought a language with them, some of which has integrated and amalgamated with what was here before, and with other external influences to produce a dialect which has a certain amount in common with Scots. To say that Shetland is a dialect of Scots is taking it a bit far though IMHO, I don't buy that there's enough Scots in Shetland to take it that far.