Italy has the right idea.

[Evil Inky]

I would hope Evil Inky that your are not suggesting that someones Qualifications or social standing would make them exempt or above the law,

I wasn't suggesting a speeding foreign surgeon should get off scot-free; they would have to pay the fine like anybody else. I was suggesting that automatically deporting them as well might not be a good idea.

I for one wish to be able to access good primary health care but not if it means letting a criminal into the country

What about a foreign doctor, from, say, China or Burma, whose only crime was to have held political views his government didn't approve of ?

[sheepshagger]

A political refugee is not considered a criminal, it is when they take a political objection and turn it to violence we should be wary of letting them in.

Whose to say that they wont use violence when they disagree with our politics or way of life.

 

What if their politics or religious beliefs say its OK to have sex with children? That would get them jailed in most countries in the world but would also entitle them to refugee status under the UN charter, and like mugs Britain would probably let them in, then pay them compensation for not allowing them to practice these beliefs.

 

Life is not as clear cut as we would like so I will say it again common sense is needed when looking at these issues

[Evil Inky]

Life is not as clear cut as we would like so I will say it again common sense is needed when looking at these issues

 

We can't simply pass a law stating that "all immigration issues will be decided on the basis of common sense"; not least because nobody can actually agree on what common sense is.

[sheepshagger]

but you can use common sense when formulating the laws and common sense when enforcing them.

And as for not being able to agree what is common sense.

it is self explanitory if most folks would agree that it is reasonable it is common sense.

It is when you try to please the minority that things go tits up.

[Evil Inky]

but you can use common sense when formulating the laws and common sense when enforcing them.

And as for not being able to agree what is common sense.

it is self explanitory if most folks would agree that it is reasonable it is common sense.

Which, since the UK is a democracy, is pretty much the system we have at the moment. If a majority of the population don't like the Government's immigration policies, they can vote somebody else in.

[JAStewart]

It will only be told at the next election wether or not people share the mildly xenophobic views of the anti-immigration community.

 

So far, in the last 3 elections, obviously it wasn't a big enough problem for people do to something about it.

 

Common sense isn't something that will ever be agreed on. Ever. Ultra Liberals would call your 'anti-immigration common sense' detestable; ultra conservatives would applaud it. One answer is never the answer.

[junior]

Which, since the UK is a democracy, is pretty much the system we have at the moment. If a majority of the population don't like the Government's immigration policies, they can vote somebody else in.

 

^^^ And we all know about how much variety we have in the main parties.

 

Even the tories, apparently controversial, cap suggestion, didn't even pretend to address the current European free-for-all.

 

"Lets look at what we can change" was one statement from Cameron, acknowledging that immigration from European countries are now outwith our control, and seeming to not care either.

[JAStewart]

Sir Jump-The-Bandwagon Cameron can't make up his mind what he wants his party to do. Whatever the public wants he'll bow down to it, it seems, well, whatever HIS voting community demands anyway.

 

And he wouldn't hesitate in cutting the channel tunning in half with a big saw to try and stop immigrants. A vote for Cameron is a vote for much less immigrants, so if that is what you want, vote for him at the next election.

[junior]

^^^ If he was as decisive as that I would applaud (if not vote for) him

 

Unfortunately he only spoke in vague terms about immigration from outside the EU.

 

The point is that none of the main parties are even willing the address the European issue, one which is becoming more an more important to people. I fear it is going to take a BNP MP or two before they actually do.

[Evil Inky]

Which, since the UK is a democracy, is pretty much the system we have at the moment. If a majority of the population don't like the Government's immigration policies, they can vote somebody else in.

 

^^^ And we all know about how much variety we have in the main parties.

This suggests that there aren't many votes to be gained by adopting anti-immigration policies. In other words, most of the population either agrees with the current state of affairs, or couldn't care less. If it was clear to a political party that they'd win a General Election by a landslide by adopting anti-immigration policies, they'd do it in a shot.

[Lola Boomboom]

it is self explanitory if most folks would agree that it is reasonable it is common sense.

It is when you try to please the minority that things go tits up.

 

Yes, two sheep are certaintly wiser than one!

The majority of the UK reads 'The Sun' - let us take it as gospel, and lets cancel all ambulance flights from Shetland to Aberdeen since the majority of the UK have no need for them.

Yer minority groups have as much right to be heard as the rest.

[DamnSaxon]

No problem with folks looking to make a better life for themselves but with those that move to another country and proceed to break that countries laws.

... and ...

I have spent most of my adult life travelling and working all over the world, and I certainly have not agreed with every law in every country I have visited but apart from the occasional drink in dry countries I have obeyed those laws ...

Sheepshagger, it sounds like your own nefarious and criminal activities in foreign lands offend your own principles ... Or should we just ignore 'dry' countries' laws because we Brits have that one 'right'? What about people who like using drugs that happen to be illegal here but are tolerated where they come from?

 

It is when you try to please the minority that things go tits up.

Depends on the minority in question, surely? Romanians who are into stoving other peoples' heads in with bricks (a la original story) are one thing, but if it's (say) a Romanian music and dance ensemble, then, as

Yer minority groups have as much right to be heard as the rest.

Yeah. Only common sense, really (whatever exactly that is!).

[sheepshagger]

since you decided to edit me while quoting me Damn Saxon I will remind you of the whole statement (I have underlined the missing text for you)

 

I have spent most of my adult life travelling and working all over the world, and I certainly have not agreed with every law in every country I have visited but apart from the occasional drink in dry countries I have obeyed those laws, and where I have transgressed I have been fully prepared to accept the consequences of my actions

 

My crimes are not against the person, they are an offence because of their religious beliefs it is most certainly not because of mine. I respect their right to these beliefs (I do not insist they do drink when in Shetland).

 

But as my statement said I know the penalty should I get caught drinking and would be prepared to take it, it would involve a month or two in jail, maybe public flogging probably over a few days and at the end of it I would be deported at my expense. I would be seriously pissed off if I was caught but as an adult you have to make decisions and be prepared for the consequences of those decisions. I drink in a walled compound where there are no locals and it is common place for expats to drink. the authorities know we are drinking but chose to ignore it for the most part because if they chucked out the expats that drink there would be no one to build/fix things, produce oil, do the accounts, tend to their gardens, staff the shops, nurse the sick, operate plant, drive buses/taxi's/trucks, nanny their kids, fly their planes you name it expats do it for them without us they are foot-sucked. so it is a fairly minor risk

The position the UK is in now is any sausage can come here do what the hell they want with very little fear jail and no chance of getting deported.

 

lola sorry for not explaining myself fully

 

It is when you try to please the minority at the expense of the majority that things go tits up

 

the sun wishes the majority read it not even close, it sells 3million copies it would take ten sun readers ten days to read the same copy so no 30million folks reading it every day.

 

minorities have the right to be heard but not to impose their will on the majority

 

Oh yeah I'm not anti immigration or anti immigrant just fed up with a situation where anybody can get in and you can't throw criminals out

[Medziotojas]

it would take ten sun readers ten days to read the same copy

 

Yep... 'bout sums 'em up

[junior]

...

And we all know about how much variety we have in the main parties.

This suggests that there aren't many votes to be gained by adopting anti-immigration policies. In other words, most of the population either agrees with the current state of affairs, or couldn't care less. If it was clear to a political party that they'd win a General Election by a landslide by adopting anti-immigration policies, they'd do it in a shot.

 

They are vote-whores I agree, but I do think immigration is a genuine concern for people (the size of the The Sun readership has already been mentioned). Take Iraq as an example of public opinion versus government policy. Clearly people do feel very strongly about it, but it is by no means guaranteed to lose Labour the next general election.

 

Part of the reason policies restricting immigration aren't adopted more often is that the response is to label them "anti-immigration". Acknowledging that unlimited immigration is not a good thing, is no more "anti-immigration" than the status-quo is "anti-border-control".

 

Polarization (damn you polarizationists ) does not do the debate any good. Similarly, appearing to be nationalist or right-wing, not to mention appearing to share policies with the BNP, triggers the same sort of knee-jerk exaggeration from the vocal (not-so-)liberals.