EnglishinScotland Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Heroin addiction is only as dangerous as it is because it is illegal. Yes you have persuasive arguments. I see your point about the quality of the stuff, as I say it's a consequentialist argument. But, I'm perhaps more of a deontologist- I'm still not fully convinced by the morality of legalising a harmful drug, even if it's effects are more predictable or controllable than it's illegal form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 sorry sherlock , just been scanning over the report ( very interesting) yes foolish of me to think that just because the few establishments that i visited were still there, Anyway i feel now i have said my last on this debate , as it could go on and on . It wont affect me really either way what they do as regards substance control as i am a legal eagle these days., I also had my last drink on the 6th jan , gona try teetotalism as well just for the sheer hell of it. teetotalism wisna very successful dan, da first beers on de when du wins hom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I'm still not fully convinced by the morality of legalising a harmful drugSo we should make alcohol illegal on moral grounds then? This is what the Temperance movements were all about. Don't make the mistake of thinking that your particular morals describe the complete truth; they do not. You have a personal set of beliefs about the morality of drug use (which you are fully entitled to), but not everybody shares your view here. And, as long as some people wish to use drugs, the deontological view of this issue is better described as 'puritanism'. Where is the moral high-ground for a society which permits (even encourages) alcohol abuse, but forbids the responsible use of other substances? Why do you believe that this is a moral issue at all? Personally, I think that a stubbornly deontological view is what has brought us to this crisis point in the first place. Imposing one's morals on others is doomed to failure; one can only educate towards a particular moral stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishinScotland Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Why do you believe that this is a moral issue at all? Personally, I think that a stubbornly deontological view is what has brought us to this crisis point in the first place. Imposing one's morals on others is doomed to failure; one can only educate towards a particular moral stance. In this case perhaps you are right. However I would like to add there are cases where a deontological view makes more sense, although you probably don't want to veer off into a philosophical argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 If you'd like to create a topic for debating these aspects, then I'm sure folks will join in I do not doubt that there are situations where such a philosophy works but, in the subject under discussion, it has failed to produce the results one would hope for. The issue remains one of practicality, not philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishinScotland Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 If you'd like to create a topic for debating these aspects, then I'm sure folks will join in . Too bad you don't have a philosophy section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 try anything and everything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 The rising peril of crack cocaineCleveland and other forces dread the gun and gang violence, often with connections to international networks, that can accompany increased drug dealing and abuse. The police face a tough time controlling this lucrative trade. Like other forces, Cleveland's officers are faced with localities, such as Gresham in Middlesbrough, where long-suffering residents see crack houses prosper as low prices allow almost anyone to smoke "rock" in homemade pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 One arguement is this: Legalize all drugs and let nature take its course. It is true that it would rid of the nasty types in society (whoever they are) but I'm sure it would muck up society for a good few decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I'm still not fully convinced by the morality of legalising a harmful drugSo we should make alcohol illegal on moral grounds then? No, alcohol shouldn't be legal if we're not going to legalize other drugs. There, I said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOYAANISQATSI Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 ^^^^^Ever heard of Al Capone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnSaxon Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Fjool's link to the BBC page is good, the programme was quite interesting listening too. It's repeated on Sunday, recommended. I still think the problem is the attitude of a lot of the people who take drugs. During my own mis-spent youth we used to enjoy getting nicely stoned, talking rubbish, listening to music etc., but we never even considered mugging other people for money, breaking into their homes etc. - in fact the coolest thing was to be really stoned and not to show it. We thought of it as drug use - and generally, we were experiencing one drug at a time. These days your average user seems to regard getting "mashed" (a telling choice of word in itself) as just a prelude to going around causing trouble. I'd call that drug abuse. Example, one of the "celebrity" stoner stories recently mentioned that they'd taken heroin, cocaine, amphetamine, ecstasy and ketamine ... and then gone out clubbing. Dear God! With a mash like that inside, I don't think I'd trust myself to behave responsibly. With a full tank of alcohol added, even less so. I still think we need to legalise most drugs (I'd make exceptions for the really nastily addictive, damaging stuff like crack), but somehow we'd also need to teach the users responsibility. Perhaps we could just start by ignoring drug use completely, as irrelevant to any crimes committed: you cause trouble, sunshine, you're inside, no excuses. What a joke that "They" call them "controlled" drugs. For as long as society throws its hands up in horror at the very mention of them, controlled is the one thing they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styles Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Tonnes of people I know take all kinds of drugs and seem to lead normal lifes, jobs, normal family life, no criminal activity (except the drugs) etc. Most folk I know have atleast dabbled at some point in somthing. Seems crazy to have it not legal. But I can see the point for heroin and crack, but have folk who I know who have taken it on occasion but are not addicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishinScotland Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Tonnes of people I know take all kinds of drugs and seem to lead normal lifes, jobs, normal family life, no criminal activity (except the drugs) etc. Most folk I know have atleast dabbled at some point in somthing. Seems crazy to have it not legal. But I can see the point for heroin and crack, but have folk who I know who have taken it on occasion but are not addicted.People on Shetland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styles Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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