Broadband speed

[JordanKZ]

From the above postings it is very difficult to see exactly how a Shetland Telecom service via the Faroetel cable will actually make much difference. I'm just a layman, but surely the issues are largely down to the poor local network connecting households to the exchanges? Extra bandwidth off island is always a good thing and for that the cable is perhaps a good move, but until such a time as decent domestic connections come available there's little point as we may not be using the current off island capacity as it is.

 

To be honest it depends how much money they want to spend on this thing. Will they make it Fibre to Cabinet or Fibre to Home? The latter is highly, highly unlikely, but you can always dream!

[TeeAyBee]

Fibre to home would be great, but fibre to local distribution units would make some difference, the cable losses would be less. I wonder if there might be a possibility for fibre to community POPs? Perhaps a combined local power and broadband service?

[DamnSaxon]

Perhaps a combined local power and broadband service?

Aaargh! Please, don't suggest anything involving sending digital data down power lines! As a radio enthusiast, I know only too well that these systems invariably radiate bucketloads of interference all over the radio spectrum, because power lines are not screened and so act as giant aerial systems for the digital "splatter". There is no technical "quick fix" for it, either. Even if you don't use the spectrum yourself, please don't pollute it for those of us who do!

 

Proper data cables or fibre optics ...

Any data over power lines ...

 

(That's "Evil and very mad", btw, not "or" ... )

[TeeAyBee]

^^^ Calm down! You'll soil your anorak!

 

No suggestion like that was made. What I'd like to see is community projects delivering power and delivering data services. With the absence of any intention to install decent cables to domestic properties we'll still face the same bottlenecks from the same crappy low speed connections to the local exchanges for communities over a few klicks away. So what can be done? Maybe community schemes would be a reasonable solution, and if the expense of setting up such a scheme is considered, why not implement community power generation too? Maybe there would be an economy in considering both projects side by side (in a figurative and financial sense before your blood pressure reaches new heights).

[DamnSaxon]

^^^

 

You're okay, but whenever I see "power" and "digital data" hanging around together in one sentence I tend to worry. If they can deliver them separately down proper cabling, no problem, but keep an eye on any suggestions.

 

It's too late to worry about the anorak, btw, much too late ...

[shetlandpeat]

Many years ago I had probably one of the first wireless transfers. It would have been about 1982 or 3 when I connected my Sinclair ZX81, via a preamp to an 11 Metre Tranceiver (A CB Radio). My mate down the road did the same with his, and after 2 or three nights managed to send a string that put random dots on the monitor. In all when we got the levels right, it took 3 minutes to transfer about 800 bites.

 

Just a diversion.

[Marvin]

From the above postings it is very difficult to see exactly how a Shetland Telecom service via the Faroetel cable will actually make much difference. I'm just a layman, but surely the issues are largely down to the poor local network connecting households to the exchanges? Extra bandwidth off island is always a good thing and for that the cable is perhaps a good move, but until such a time as decent domestic connections come available there's little point as we may not be using the current off island capacity as it is.

 

Perhaps someone on the 'team' could answer that question?

 

Sorry it has taken so long to reply.

 

The Shetland Telecom project might be best served in a new thread but I’ll continue here in the meantime.

 

The Shetland Telecom project (at this stage) is not directly linked to improving broadband speeds for domestic users but will ultimately improve the overall broadband situation which will result in improved broadband for homes.

 

Limited or no improvement can be made until there is better ‘off-island’ bandwidth available. At the moment BT and Cable & Wireless are the only two carriers of off-island bandwidth. These telcos provide microwave links which ‘multi-hop’ from Sooth end, to Fair Isle, to Orkney etc… These microwave links are limited in capacity and on occasion can be unreliable.

 

Faroese Telecom have a fibre optic cable which lands in Maywick and goes over the hill to Sandwick and then onwards to the Scottish Mainland.

 

The first job for the Shetland Telecom project is to establish a connection from Maywick to Lerwick in order to benefit from the increased and reliable bandwidth available on the Faroese cable.

 

Domestic broadband users will see no benefit initially because there are no current plans from BT to access this additional bandwidth. The main beneficiary will be telcos who previously could not access the Shetland market or who are currently in the local market but can’t access additional (affordable) bandwidth.

 

There is an aspiration to use this bandwidth to go take solutions to the communities, which are currently poorly served. Community broadband schemes (like TeeAyBee suggests) and also schemes like the wireless pilot projects in Vidlin and Fetlar. We will look to get funding for more of these schemes if/when we can demonstrate that they work effectively/efficiently.

 

No improvements are possible without access to more bandwidth and the project (at the moment) is making significant progress in resolving that problem. The additional benefits will follow after. This is stage one… we have many more to follow….. I promise.

 

Cheers

 

Marvin

[Ghostrider]

^^ Okay, telecoms and electronics are not really my forte, so humour this fool here for a minute, please.

 

Maybe I've missed it, or just didn't "get" it from the way it was put, but would the following scenario be so absurd?

 

Shetland Broadband buys in to the Faeroe cable as stated, then sets itself up as a Shetland ISP. We're all buying a connection at the moment from some outside based ISP company, all of which pass all of the data we utilise over the same cabling and microwave links they themselves either own or lease. Every one of us relies on the BT cabling connecting between home/business and local BT exchanges to do this

 

If Shetland Broadband are leasing space on the Faeroe cable, would the logical next step no be to invest in ISP hardware, connect it to the Faeroe cable, and offer domestic/business broadband connections to all Shetland addresses via a master connection between BT's local network and the ISP hardware. That is what is more or less happening already is it not? Whatever ISP any of us are with will have a master connection between whatever BT network is local to their hardware location. It would simply be a case of relocating that master connection so that from there on out data travelled by a superior route. Yes, everybody would still be restricted by the shortcomings of the local BT cabling and hardware between home/business and ISP site, but at least it would be a start and would eliminate the overload speed reduction and weather?? and other outages inherent in the current out of isle link. Not ideal, but a perfectly good starting point which would be of some benefit to every internet users, if they wanted to take advantage of it, and would bring in an early income stream to Shetland Broadband.

 

Is the investment in setting up and running an ISP really so large that the above could never be an economically viable business proposition? If 50% of Shetland has an internet connection, at a very conservative estimate that's 5000 potential customers, at what, say minimum £20/month, potential income at least £100,000 month. The most of which would remain within the isle, as opposed to right now, with all of it vanishing in to the pockets of a few mainland UK or foreign based corporations.

 

Sure, BT might not want to play ball with a master connection between their local hardware and a local ISP, but have they ever been asked?

[TeeAyBee]

Thanks for the response Marvin. I appreciate the position and the process although I think I'd like to see the utilisation figures of the off island available bandwidth as I'm unconvinced that we are using all that is available. The majority of the complaints that folk up here have is poor service to the house, not off island connection bottlenecks. The exchanges in some areas are very poor and can only support low speed connections - that's not an off island bandwidth issue, and those of us over what seems to be more than a good spit from the exchange have speeds under the 3Mbps mark on a good day, and much less on a bad one.

 

I'm not sure what Shetland Telecom will improve for me or other ADSL users with the poor and aging cabling up here in the intial stages. Are there any provisions in later stages of this project to address the local connection issues? I welcome the impending arrival of more telcos as that might mean better pricing, and would welcome the opportunity for local firms to participate in schemes.

 

Thanks again for the answer Marvin and I hope it goes well.

[hairyian]

^^ Okay, telecoms and electronics are not really my forte, so humour this fool here for a minute, please.

 

Maybe I've missed it, or just didn't "get" it from the way it was put, but would the following scenario be so absurd?

 

Shetland Broadband ....

 

That Business Name has already been taken.

 

http://www.shetlandbroadband.net

[shetlandpeat]

As ever there seems to be a reliance on BT. And because of this they are made out to be the evil one you have always to deal with.

BT were called to acount over their monopoly over the phone system and were forced to create a company called Openreach.

This company is suposed to be independant, and run as a going concern.

 

The only way you may remove yourselves from the web of BT and Openreach is to use the monopoly side of things to try to get a cable provider to install some services.

 

Sadly, this will only happen in Lerook and other such high density populated areas. But, as with the Shetland Electricity Generating ideas, the big hurdle is getting an reasonably sizes link to a network/grid.

 

You could always try to get as many folk as you can to phone cable providers south and enquire about a connection, the more customers (potential) they think they may get the more likley the positive outcome. With some grant from the Government (remember, they want your votes) it couls kickstart it. Sitting back and complaining will prove -ve.

 

I remember my Dad havin constant troubles with a dial up a few years ago.

I also remember the phone lines being all used up at New Year, then there were no mobiles.

 

 

It needs some forceful action I think. Something has to be done, otherwise Shetland and its businesses will always be at an unfair level and will struggle as time moves on.

 

Good Broadband speeds are at best limited to a few who are lucky to live near an exchange. Openreach need to install new lines and equipment.

 

On cable I get 10 Mb, if I wanted 50. but yes, it is like the old fax machine thing, I could have a 14,000 baud fax unit, but connect it to a 9,600 unit it will drop to the lower speed.

 

Shetland needs this as a seal needs the sea.....

 

A 10 Downing Street petition may be a start, to get some funding to start this off...

 

imo

Good luck in any efforts you folk make

 

 

peat

[Ghostrider]

^^ Okay, telecoms and electronics are not really my forte, so humour this fool here for a minute, please.

 

Maybe I've missed it, or just didn't "get" it from the way it was put, but would the following scenario be so absurd?

 

Shetland Broadband ....

 

That Business Name has already been taken.

 

http://www.shetlandbroadband.net

 

Yup, point taken. Major typo on my part, sorry. I meant "Shetland Telecom" as referenced in the post immediately above mine.

[Marvin]

^^ Okay, telecoms and electronics are not really my forte, so humour this fool here for a minute, please.

No worries. Please appreciate that I am choosing to answer questions in this forum to the best of my abilities but there is commercially sensitive information which I can't 'broadcast'.

 

Maybe I've missed it, or just didn't "get" it from the way it was put, but would the following scenario be so absurd?

 

Shetland Broadband buys in to the Faeroe cable as stated, then sets itself up as a Shetland ISP. We're all buying a connection at the moment from some outside based ISP company, all of which pass all of the data we utilise over the same cabling and microwave links they themselves either own or lease. Every one of us relies on the BT cabling connecting between home/business and local BT exchanges to do this

 

If Shetland Broadband are leasing space on the Faeroe cable, would the logical next step no be to invest in ISP hardware, connect it to the Faeroe cable, and offer domestic/business broadband connections to all Shetland addresses via a master connection between BT's local network and the ISP hardware. That is what is more or less happening already is it not? Whatever ISP any of us are with will have a master connection between whatever BT network is local to their hardware location. It would simply be a case of relocating that master connection so that from there on out data travelled by a superior route. Yes, everybody would still be restricted by the shortcomings of the local BT cabling and hardware between home/business and ISP site, but at least it would be a start and would eliminate the overload speed reduction and weather?? and other outages inherent in the current out of isle link. Not ideal, but a perfectly good starting point which would be of some benefit to every internet users, if they wanted to take advantage of it, and would bring in an early income stream to Shetland Broadband.

 

You mean unbundle the Lerwick exchange and therefore the outgoing lines across Shetland because all the other exchanges are 'satellites' to the Lerwick exchange?

 

 

Is the investment in setting up and running an ISP really so large that the above could never be an economically viable business proposition? If 50% of Shetland has an internet connection, at a very conservative estimate that's 5000 potential customers, at what, say minimum £20/month, potential income at least £100,000 month. The most of which would remain within the isle, as opposed to right now, with all of it vanishing in to the pockets of a few mainland UK or foreign based corporations.

 

Sure, BT might not want to play ball with a master connection between their local hardware and a local ISP, but have they ever been asked?

 

We have done some research into how much it would cost to unbundle and it is on the agenda. The trick (as ever) is trying to pull all of these things together with very limited resources. At the moment there is only 2 people working on the project... As I pointed out earlier there is a huge raft of projects in the offing including looking at mobile coverage, community broadband projects, servicing and maintaining networks and unbundling. We will get there but at the moment the unquestionable problem is accessing more bandwidth at a reasonable price. We also have the problem of having to work within state aid regulations. In some cases we have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that nobody else id going to do it before we can actually look at a project. We are also working very closely with Shetland Broadband who are a Shetland based ISP. They are providing ISP services for the Community Broadband Pilot projects in Vidlin and Fetlar.

[Marvin]

Thanks for the response Marvin. I appreciate the position and the process although I think I'd like to see the utilisation figures of the off island available bandwidth as I'm unconvinced that we are using all that is available. The majority of the complaints that folk up here have is poor service to the house, not off island connection bottlenecks. The exchanges in some areas are very poor and can only support low speed connections - that's not an off island bandwidth issue, and those of us over what seems to be more than a good spit from the exchange have speeds under the 3Mbps mark on a good day, and much less on a bad one.

 

I'm not sure what Shetland Telecom will improve for me or other ADSL users with the poor and aging cabling up here in the intial stages. Are there any provisions in later stages of this project to address the local connection issues? I welcome the impending arrival of more telcos as that might mean better pricing, and would welcome the opportunity for local firms to participate in schemes.

 

Thanks again for the answer Marvin and I hope it goes well.

 

Cheers TeeAyBee...

 

The off-island bandwidth is the major problem as well as restrictions within the exchanges. The main driver is to get access to more bandwidth which we can then sell in order to fund future improvements. We are working very closely with the telcos.

[khitajrah]

Do I win a prize for having the worst internet connection?

 

http://www.speedtest.net/result/711946327.png

 

I'm seriously starting to think there is something wrong.