Pooks Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 You have raised a good point. Should you book a cabin, be expected to produce photographic identification. What happens if you travel as a foot passenger? Should you be asked for photo id or not? Is it discrimination to be asking that person for id? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willz320 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 You have raised a good point. Should you book a cabin, be expected to produce photographic identification. What happens if you travel as a foot passenger? Should you be asked for photo id or not? Is it discrimination to be asking that person for id? I don't think so. In respect of having ID for cabin passengers, and not for foot passengers - i think it would be too confusing for the check-in folk. Plus, whos to say that an incident would not happen anywhere else on the ship - in the bar or lounges. Asking for ID has certainly become widespread and I dont agree with some aspects of this - but I do think that it is perfectly acceptable to ask ID when there is potentially other folks safety at risk. Its commonplace for ID to be used when attending gigs, staying at a hotel or even applying for a store card - just to check that you are indeed who you say you are. At the end of the day - they are just looking to match the details you've given to your official ID. Obviously obtaining a false ID is fairly easy - but at least NorthLink are trying. Having photographic identification is needed day-to-day now, its very unlikely this will change in future (especially with the mandatory ID debate....) - why fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Inky Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Having photographic identification is needed day-to-day now, its very unlikely this will change in future (especially with the mandatory ID debate....) - why fight.Why fight ? Because I don't want all my personal details to be available to every nosy policeman, local council official and NHS bureaucrat who fancies a root around in my private affairs, that's why. And I'm not even convinced photo ID is needed day-to-day. The only photo ID I possess is my passport, and that doesn't leave its drawer unless I'm travelling abroad. I've managed to travel south, attend gigs, and stay in hotels without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willz320 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 For most people - a majority in fact - all of this information is already available for anyone who takes an extra-special interest in your details! I think we are crossing the line between the pro's and cons of Photo ID, and the ongoing debate on the use of information, and the authority to view the data which is held about us. What are we arguing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Inky Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I think we are crossing the line between the pro's and cons of Photo ID, and the ongoing debate on the use of information, and the authority to view the data which is held about us. What are we arguing here?You seem to be suggesting that it is our duty as citizens to make life easier for officialdom by presenting a photographic ID to any bureaucratic jobsworth who wants to see one. You also seem to be suggesting that the Government's proposed ( and enormously expensive ) compulsory ID card scheme isn't worth fighting against. I do not share either of these opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 For most people - a majority in fact - all of this information is already available for anyone who takes an extra-special interest in your details! The key phrase being 'extra-special'. The proposed schemes are a step closer to allowing the 'curiously interested' and 'outright nefarious' to rummage around also. Simply because we have already started down this slippery slope does not mean that we should don roller-skates and strap a rocket to our collective posterior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willz320 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I think that when we ask of a service, we should be quite happy to show ID if that is what is asked of us. I do not however relate this to the cumpulsory scheme. I am looking at this from the company's point of view - rather than taking in all of the political background over ID. The 'illegality' of compulsory ID - from what I can see, is that it is an easy way to store the entire UK on a database, whereas carrying standard photo Id, whether its a driving license, student card or the northlink card is a simple way of proving you are who you say you are. I doubt highly that northlink want to keep records of our every movement by asking for ID -or that they are covertly sending these records of travel to the government! If the government, or any nosy bureaucrat wants to find out information about your travel - im sure using the Freedom of Information act would suffice. Giving ID to the check-in staff isnt going to make it any easier or harder to collect information about us. If you expect travel, you should expect to prove to them who you are. It doesn't get any more clear cut. They are accountable for who is onboard, say in the event of an emergency - they cant afford to be letting folk on the ship without making sure it really is them. The islander discount scheme. Although its little - it certainly helps. But how long is that going to last if there are hundreds of folk from down south using islander discounts to get here? And how about criminals in both Shetland and Orkney? Good job the police will have tracking down someone who's travelled with a fake name. Im not saying compulsory Id is the way forward - i just think that its the least thing we could do to help operations like the ferry, and airports run smoother and safer. They're not interested in your medical history - they just want to see your mug on a plastic card! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 If you expect travel, you should expect to prove to them who you are. It doesn't get any more clear cut. They are accountable for who is onboard, say in the event of an emergency - they cant afford to be letting folk on the ship without making sure it really is them. I'm not sure I buy this, to be honest. What difference does it make to them if I claim to be Marmalade Atkins, or Che Guvara? That my name and visage correspond with an easily forged piece of plastic isn't going to prevent shenanigans, but it will be extra inconvenience and expense for the honest folks. Isn't it enough that they know how many people are on board? Or do you anticipate them checking IDs as the ship sinks and rescuing only those who look exactly like their photo? Isn't it enough that my face is already attached to my head? I guess I approach this from the point of view that everyone is entitled to their privacy. I heartily do not subscribe to this idea that people with nothing to hide have nothing to fear. An honest, paying customer is entitled to a degree of privacy. Perhaps I would feel different if these schemes actually provided any benefit to the folks who will ultimately end up having to pay for, and cooperate with, them. So... what are the benefits? Addendum: And why would my existing photo ID (e.g. driving license) not suffice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willz320 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 If you expect travel, you should expect to prove to them who you are. It doesn't get any more clear cut. They are accountable for who is onboard, say in the event of an emergency - they cant afford to be letting folk on the ship without making sure it really is them. I'm not sure I buy this, to be honest. What difference does it make to them if I claim to be Marmalade Atkins, or Che Guvara? That my name and visage correspond with an easily forged piece of plastic isn't going to prevent shenanigans, but it will be extra inconvenience and expense for the honest folks. Isn't it enough that they know how many people are on board? Or do you anticipate them checking IDs as the ship sinks and rescuing only those who look exactly like their photo? Isn't it enough that my face is already attached to my head? I guess I approach this from the point of view that everyone is entitled to their privacy. I heartily do not subscribe to this idea that people with nothing to hide have nothing to fear. An honest, paying customer is entitled to a degree of privacy. Perhaps I would feel different if these schemes actually provided any benefit to the folks who will ultimately end up having to pay for, and cooperate with, them. So... what are the benefits? *sorry not sure how to quote one part of text!! can anyone help? If the ship was to sink, and you are Che Guvara, who do they contact? The Cuban Embassy? What do they do if 'Mickey Mouse' jumps overboard - report that a fictional character has had an untimely death to the MCA? Why use an incorrect name if travelling as an honest customer? Its surely in your best interests just to tell them who you are - or is it some kind of frankly ill-humurous game?! What is the benefit of not telling them your name? As for privacy, surely the admission of your name isn't too probing? Cost isn't a factor, Id is quite easily obtained for free- the only real inconvenience is carrying it with you when you travel. They already have your information - you've just gotta prove it. Ever been the victim of identity fraud? I haven't, and I sure as hell dont mind using ID to travel if it secures, in any way, things that are entitled exclusively to me. Like my bank, my ferry bookings, my gig tickets, my plane bookings. Yes fake IDs are fairly easy to come by, but in saying that - can you personally create an authentic looking ID such as a driving license or passport? I know I couldnt, and that way, my gig tickets are safer than they were before - becuase now the thieves have to try harder! Which is a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Surely all of the above applies equally to people travelling by bus/train/tube/taxi/rickshaw......... Should we need to produce photo ID for them too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willz320 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Remember that we are travelling over 200 miles - its not just a 5 minute ride in a taxi. The same expectations are in force at all airports.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 but why cant we just use our passport. like we do at airports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I've never been asked for photo ID at an airport (unless travelling abroad) All they have wanted to see was the card used to to pay for the flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willz320 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 but why cant we just use our passport. like we do at airports? You can. All is required is a standard photo ID. Passport, driving license, student ID, a bank card with a photo, a national concession card, bus pass, a young scot card, citizenship card, local authority card (SIC or OIC)...the list isnt exhaustive. Obviously a completely random photo ID for an unknown club or organisation wouldn't be acceptable. It would be quite interesting to find a survey somewhere that could see how many people actually dont have any form of photo ID. No-one under 16 needs any, most young folk have student ID, a huge percentage carry a driving license (upgrades from paper to photo card at the DVLA is about £9 i think), and everyone in Scotland over the age of 60 should have now been issued with the National Concession Card which entitles them to two free return trips on the ferry with a cabin, and completely free bus travel over the whole of scotland. And, for all registered islanders in Orkney and Shetland (over 40000 i think), they are offering to put your photo on your existing discount card for free at any of the terminals or offices. With this being Shetland, and the check-in staff being local, its probably quite unlikely that they will need to check ID on most of the islanders - they know a lot of faces! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willz320 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I've never been asked for photo ID at an airport (unless travelling abroad) All they have wanted to see was the card used to to pay for the flight. I was asked for identification at Kirkwall airport, and that was just to Aberdeen. Just asked for a driving license or passport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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