UEFA Cup Final

[Stan]

Go on then Stan, tell us what Hearts fans have done lately...apart from receive official recognition from the mayor of Bordeaux for their conduct in that beautiful city.

 

Perhaps not to the same extent as some clubs due to the lower profile of Hearts but then Hearts don't usually have more than two matches in Europe every 5 or 6 years and the travelling support dwindles greatly domestically when they're not competing for 2nd or 3rd place in the league! However, and I don't want to get in to a "your fans are worser than our fans" but maybe these couple of snippets of news items from the last couple of years could suffice just now:

 

2007 - "A Hearts football fan has become one of the first in Scotland to be banned from all of Britain's football grounds. Dean Gollan, from Edinburgh, has been barred for three months from entering any UK stadium where a regulated match is taking place, a court has ruled. Gollan, 33, was given the football banning order for a breach of the peace during a match between Aberdeen and Hearts at the Pittodrie ground."

 

2008 - From the website 'Vital Heart of Midlothian website ("For the fans, by the fans") - Talking about a match at Parkhead:

"As usual it would seem, there was some trouble in and around the section of the stadium allocated to visiting supporters, with nine people being ejected from the ground and three being arrested.";

"It sounds like the usual case of nastiness occurring on both sides of the fence, with the only people being appropriately dealt with happening to be on the visiting side.";

"Part of the problem, a big part in fact, is the considerable percentage of absolute knuckle-scrapers that sit in the Hearts section at this fixture. I'm not sure if these guys go regularly to Hearts games or not (I'm inclined to think that they don't and only turn out for games where there might be trouble but that's just a hunch), but they frankly make you embarrassed to be a Hearts fan with some of the behaviour they come out with, whether it be sick or sectarian songs or just the way that they handle themselves in general."

 

That last bit is quite interesting. I'm not trying to point score here because you could quite easily replace the word "Hearts" with any other major Scottish club. Kind of makes my point, this is a problem in Scottish society and not just the fault of one football club and it becomes even worse when booze is involved.

[Marooned in Maywick]

Jeez, Stan, straw-clutching par excellence.

 

Oh...and nice attempt at deflecting attention away from your team's support.

 

Hasn't worked for me though - I still ackonwledge that, home or away, your average Rangers fan is a creature best avoided.

[Stan]

For crying out loud, at what point was I deflecting attention? Re-read my posts, please. You asked me a question and I answered it in the short space of time that I could be bothered to. I honestly have no inclination to list in detail the misdemeanors of other clubs' fans - this is not about point scoring. Yes, there is a problem but because of the high profile of the Rangers, numerous significantly important matches and our large fanbase, any trouble is more visible and more of a news item. Even then, Manchester was not the norm. Since you brought up the subject, until the final, 18 matches in Europe, no trouble of note and not one arrest, with the last praise coming from the authorities in Florence.

 

I thought I might get a reasoned opinion and discussion from some folk, even a friendly nod to say "I can see your point of view". I consider myself to be an average Rangers fan - never involved in any trouble and up for a bit of banter with fans of any club. Willing to discuss football in general and enjoy a damn good discussion with varying points of view with those that are keen to open their minds to such varying opinions. And yet, I'm "a creature best avoided". Says it all really. Difficult to have a proper discussion with someone with such blinkered vision and is anti-Rangers with a passion to the last.

 

However, I live in hope, MinM, that perhaps someday I can convince you that the average Rangers fan is the same as the average Hearts fan or the average Burnley fan or the average Feyenoord fan or the average Bayern Munich fan . . .

 

All the best to you.

[Marooned in Maywick]

Well, I wouldn't have considered you an average Rangers fan - not in my experience of those who used to visit Gorgie when I was a regular attendee, though I don't believe I've ever met you at a game.

 

By and large, in Shetland, football fans of all persuasions seem to be able to get on with one another and are capable of behaving in the civilised manner you describe.

 

Whether it's a remoteness from the game thing or if other sociological factors come into play I don't really know - all I can say, with certainty, is that the majority of Rangers fans I experienced (at games) were creatures best avoided.

[Gifford]

At work the other day I was having a debate with a lady who told me that Asian people were, 'lazy, smelly pigs with a bad attitude to "Scottish" people'. As much as I tried to persuade her otherwise, her only argument was that the ones she had crossed paths with were lazy etc, and I ended up feeling I lost the argument. I feel that debating with MinM might have the same outcome.

 

I reckon in terms of football it is fine to dislike another team, but an unfair generalisation on their fans does not reinforce your argument.

[Marooned in Maywick]

^^^

 

Unfair generalisation?

 

How do you know what I experienced when Rangers came to Tynecastle?

 

I stand by my comment that the majority of Rangers fans I encountered were people I would not like to spend time with.

[Mini]

Pehaps it wasn't just Rangers fans: http://blogs.notw.co.uk/newsoftheworld_scotland/2008/05/english-rent-a.html#more

 

I got spoken to by a drunken man down here in Glasgow who had just been to the hospital to get his arm stitched up after being caught up in the troubles in Manchester...I asked if he followed Rangers, but no, he was a Celtic fan who was down there to cause a 'bit of trouble'.

[Frankie]

^^^

 

Unfair generalisation?

 

How do you know what I experienced when Rangers came to Tynecastle?

 

I stand by my comment that the majority of Rangers fans I encountered were people I would not like to spend time with.

 

I assume you went to Tynecastle in the early to mid 80's ?

Here's a good read once you've finished To Kill A Mockingbird.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bring-Out-Your-Riot-Gear/dp/customer-reviews/0953592006/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&customer-reviews.start=1#customerReviews

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bring-Out-Your-Riot-Gear/dp/0953592006

[EISTnWAST]

I can't (actually I can) believe they way the Rangers fans on here are continually trying to find excuses for the behaviour of their fans in Manchester.

 

 

Would any of you agree that there is an element of the Rangers support who are a blight on your club? And do you agree that Rangers need to do more to tackle the problem?

[Frankie]

I can't (actually I can) believe they way the Rangers fans on here are continually trying to find excuses for the behaviour of their fans in Manchester.

 

 

Absolute rubbish.

 

The Rangers supporters I know on here have condemned the behaviour of a small minority of their ''fans'' in Manchester and don't want them to be associated with Rangers. Rangers have said that these people will not be allowed into any ground where Rangers are playing.

 

It is in fact the supporters of others clubs on here who are in denial that they have an element of support who are a blight on their clubs .

 

You surely don't believe that all the hooligans in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen are Rangers supporters do you ?

[Marooned in Maywick]

I assume you went to Tynecastle in the early to mid 80's ?

 

Ye-es...and Ibrox, Parkhead, Pittodrie, Tannadice and many more grounds over Scotland.

 

I still stand by my assertion that, en masse, Rangers fans are amongst the least pleasant I've encountered.

Individually I'd be quite prepared to believe many of them are decent blokes/blokettes but collectively there was always a tension in the air when they came a-visiting.

 

 

 

Here's a good read once you've finished To Kill A Mockingbird.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bring-Out-Your-Riot-Gear/dp/customer-reviews/0953592006/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&customer-reviews.start=1#customerReviews

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bring-Out-Your-Riot-Gear/dp/0953592006

Nah, no time for fairy stories

I must've either been incredibly lucky or walking around with my eyes shut not to have witnessed any of the scenes the reviewers have highlighted.

I'll pass on reading the book though - got All Quiet on the Western Front waiting.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not in any denial that Hearts have an unsavoury element amongst their support - what I do find distasteful is the Rangers fans' refusal to acknowledge that, percentage-wise, they DO have the biggest problem with bampots in their support.

 

I'd wager there are countless sociological factors at play but as a club they seem to attract the type of people who are anti-anything.

[Marooned in Maywick]

I got spoken to by a drunken man down here in Glasgow who had just been to the hospital to get his arm stitched up after being caught up in the troubles in Manchester...I asked if he followed Rangers, but no, he was a Celtic fan who was down there to cause a 'bit of trouble'.

 

Wow - that's incredible!

 

Are you a Daily Record journalist?

[Marooned in Maywick]

Found something you might want to read, Frankie...from yesterday's Scotland on Sunday...

 

In the wake of the trouble in Manchester, there has been little focus at what went on at the beamback event at Ibrox. There was over-crowding there as well. Too many people turned up and the club struggled to cope. There was fighting and blood was spilled. There was too much drink. There was organisational chaos and arrests; 17 in and around the stadium, three times more than at the last Old Firm game. However, we have not heard Rangers people condemn the event as being "run by authorities that were ill-prepared".

 

So, who was to blame for that lot...?

 

Here's a link for the complete article...

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport/No-hiding-place-for-the.4095438.jp

[EISTnWAST]

It must have been fans of other clubs

Every other clubs fans would do the same

It's only because games are beamed back to Ibrox more often than at other clubs

There was a similar incident involving a Peruvian club in 1973

 

I could make more sarcastic comments, but can't be bothered to read back through the whole thread. Those are just a few of the types of excuses we've had so far.

[Frankie]

^^

 

You're the stats man MiM.

What percentage is 17 out of 60,000 ?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that there is a small percentage of Rangers fans who are bampots and EnW there are no excuses for what went on last Wednesday night in Manchester.

 

I thought it was Celtic who did excuses.