UEFA Cup Final

[Sambasheep]

So far, according to what has been said on here and in various publications, the blame for the trouble lies at the feet of(in no particular order)....

Manchester City Council

Broken TV

Police

Stewards

Chelsea fans

Celtic fans

The heat

The drink

and pretty much anything or one except from Rangers. Startin to feel really sorry for them

[Marooned in Maywick]

You're the stats man MiM.

What percentage is 17 out of 60,000 ?

 

Ah...splendid...Frankie trying to claim the small number of arrests is somehow related to their claimed lack of trouble.

 

Now then. As it takes an officer somewhere in the region of 2 hours (figure courtesy of GMP - presumably Strathclyde plod would be similar) to go through the arrest procedure...where would you suggest their priorities lie?

In attempting to maintain some semblance of order amongst the rioting Rangers fans, or in getting one person off the streets and dealt with through the appropriate authorities?

If I was a senior police officer, I know I'd be doing my utmost to ensure that the non-rioting civilians were caused as little disruption and disturbance as possible - and if that meant foregoing some arrests in order to maintain some order on the streets then so be it.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that there is a small percentage of Rangers fans who are bampots and EnW there are no excuses for what went on last Wednesday night in Manchester.

 

Are there any excuses for what went on at Ibrox? Perhaps if they were all Celtic fans we'll maybe hear some

[bryan1888]

So far, according to what has been said on here and in various publications, the blame for the trouble lies at the feet of(in no particular order)....

Manchester City Council

Broken TV

Police

Stewards

Chelsea fans

Celtic fans

The heat

The drink

and pretty much anything or one except from Rangers. Startin to feel really sorry for them

 

Doo can add to dat list, Hibs and Motherwell fans, not enough toilets and Supermarkets in Manchester couldn`t sell single cans only crates!!

[Frankie]

You're the stats man MiM.

What percentage is 17 out of 60,000 ?

 

Ah...splendid...Frankie trying to claim the small number of arrests is somehow related to their claimed lack of trouble.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you that there is a small percentage of Rangers fans who are bampots and EnW there are no excuses for what went on last Wednesday night in Manchester.

 

:

 

I'm not really sure where you think I claimed there was a lack of trouble.

I would though think that the number of arrests would be a function of the size of the crowd and the amount of trouble being caused rather than the time it takes a police officer to do the paper work.

 

Maybe you could come up with a mathematical formula for it.

 

For about the fourth time, I'm not disagreeing with you that there is a small percentage of Rangers fans who are bampots and there are no excuses for what went on last Wednesday night in Manchester or at Ibrox.

[Marooned in Maywick]

I would though think that the number of arrests would be a function of the size of the crowd and the amount of trouble being caused rather than the time it takes a police officer to do the paper work.

 

Nope - public order and the safety of the citizenry comes first. That's how both halves of the Old Firm are able to regularly and persistently indulge in football-reelated breaches of the peace inside Tynecastle with their non-stop sectarian singing and glorification of terrorist organisations. There's just too many of them for the L&B police to deal with them all, so they don't deal with any of it...to the continuing annoyance of the non-bampot Hearts supporters.

[Stan]

According to some, Rangers, as a club, are solely to blame for this. I'm willing to indulge those with this thinking for a moment or two for the sake of an interesting debate as this thread is degrading once again to opportunists looking to point-score. If Rangers were solely at fault for the small minority who caused the mayhem, how should Rangers take steps to stop this from ever happening again?

 

Please, put forward serious solutions and don't let petty anti-Rangers views get in the way.

[Sambasheep]

According to some, Rangers, as a club, are solely to blame for this. I'm willing to indulge those with this thinking for a moment or two for the sake of an interesting debate as this thread is degrading once again to opportunists looking to point-score. If Rangers were solely at fault for the small minority who caused the mayhem, how should Rangers take steps to stop this from ever happening again?

 

Please, put forward serious solutions and don't let petty anti-Rangers views get in the way.

 

They, as a club, should have liased better with both the police and council of Manchester. If they knew so many were travelling(which it appears they did), there should have been more warning for for better facilities to be in place. Perhaps a ticketed fanzone like the one Glagow themselves arranged for the Scotland v Italy game. Certainly more riot police.

 

Probably not feasable, but my original point of the club trying to deflect blame certainly doesn't help. Without trying to be too anti-rangers, they get away with treating wherever they go like they own it and the club and press' lack of condemnation will do nothing to eradicate that attitude.

[sannicktonman]

Rangers probably have more "supporters who are bampots" than my team have supporters in total.

 

The only way for Scottish football to move forward is for Rangers and Celtic to get out of it.It might hurt 10 or so teams for a short time but in the long run will be much better for everyone (including the "Old Firm").

 

A restructuring without Celtic and Rangers of 2 leagues of 20 , possibly reducing to 2 of 16 should be sustainable and of course Rangers and Celtic wouldn't be eligible for Europe as Scottish representatives (in same way as Cardiff were to miss out had they won FA cup).

 

Wonder how long Gordon Smith, Chic Young, Jim Traynor et al would continue to bother us should that happen - good riddance I say!

[Marooned in Maywick]

According to some, Rangers, as a club, are solely to blame for this. I'm willing to indulge those with this thinking for a moment or two for the sake of an interesting debate as this thread is degrading once again to opportunists looking to point-score. If Rangers were solely at fault for the small minority who caused the mayhem, how should Rangers take steps to stop this from ever happening again?

 

Please, put forward serious solutions and don't let petty anti-Rangers views get in the way.

 

Orange away strip...half-time flute bands...Dambusters, Rule Brittania etc over the PA...just how much of that is really needed?

I appreciate it's way more of a societal problem, but until those at the club who can do something about it - i.e. really do something about the 17th century songbook and attitudes for starters - actually do something that works, I can't see them ever changing.

[Sculder]

To the tune of Jackson Five - Blame it on the boogie:

 

 

Don't blame it on the sunshine

Don't blame it on the scoreline

Don't blame it on the red wine

Blame it on the big screen

 

 

Every one a winner!

[Skyumpi]

As has been mentioned earlier, it's all too easy for this sort of thing to descend into point scoring - so here goes......

 

We've heard from some Rangers fans on here - the gist of what they're saying seems to be that, yes, they do have a tiny minority of fans who they would rather not be associated with the club. This is all good and well. Anyone who has ever been to a fitba match will have observed a fair chunk of society that they wish weren't sporting your teams colours, so it's very simple to trot out the "tiny minority" line, but I'll say again - it's the size of this minority that is the problem for Rangers and the fact that it isn't tiny.

I'm pretty sure the Manchester riot police weren't thinking "Ach, it's only a tiny minority" as they were backed down the road by what I think it's probably fair to call a howling mob. You can try to deflect the criticisms onto others all you like or dig up instances where other clubs fans have behaved badly to try and say that "so and so is just as bad as us" it doesn't change what happened last week on the day of the Cup final.

 

I'm not saying that Rangers FC are solely to blame as another poster mentions but they just haven't done enough to discourage some of the guff that goes on down at Ibrox and in the name of Rangers. Their recent Euro success means they spend more time visiting other cities so they have had more exposure this year but there's probably some of that we don't want to go picking over either.

 

In my opinion (just my opinion - certainly not the opinion of the club, most of their supporters and large sections of the press) they do have a bigger problem than anybody else in Scotland but since part of dealing with a problem is acknowledging it, it doesn't look like changing anytime soon.

 

Hopefully I'll be proved wrong and Rangers FC, backed by decent bears everywhere, will start to take a stance against what goes on in their name and begin the slow process of change for the better.

[moorit]

I would say that Rangers have about the highest number of decent law abiding fans in Scotland. 100dreds o thousands of them.

[Skyumpi]

Luckily, all 42 of the trouble makers in the Rangers support that travelled to Manchester that day were rounded up and dealt with.

 

Similarly, there were 17 arrested around Ibrox from the 25k fans who gathered there to watch the match on the world's biggest mobile screen.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7401161.stm

 

Together that's nearly 60 n'er do wells removed from the already tiny minority - so that should certainly put a stop to any problem, phew!

[Sculder]

The Rangers fans who caused the trouble in Manchester are an absolute disgrace. Not only that, but they have prevented Manchester United from having a street parade to celebrate their Champions League victory. This is an absolute travesty. I hope UEFA seriously penalise Rangers for this.

 

I would also like to question Walter Smith's comments on Nacho Novo's horrific tackle and post sending off behaviour against Aberdeen. All Walter said was that Novo got 'a little excited' which I think is disgraceful. Perhaps he had not seen a replay of the tackle; however, he surely did not miss Novo inciting the crowd on his way down the tunnel. Justice prevailed, however, as he misses the final today.

[bryan1888]

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/UEFA_Cup_Final_14th_May_2008.pdf

 

No mention of Celtic, Chelsea, Liverpool, Motherwell, Hibs fans with Rangers strips on in the official report!