Stuart Hill (Captain Calamity) Forvik

[manxman]

Returning to the core issue of Crown Dependency status (or outright independence) for Shetland, I doubt Mr Hill’s methods – well intentioned though they may be – are likely to bring about any real change. More than anything, his approach reminds me of Paddy Roy Bates, who did manage to stick two fingers up at the UK establishment in creating the Principality of Sealand, but whose actions had few consequences for anyone apart from himself and his immediate family.

 

To achieve an effective, negotiated independence, Shetland would need to demonstrate four things:

 

1 That the United Kingdom’s claim to own the islands is indeed flawed.

2 That a majority of Shetlanders actually wish for constitutional change (as expressed through a referendum organised by the UK Government or Shetland Islands Council).

3 That the islands have the leadership capacity to thrive as a micronation (meaning they would not become a drain on the UK, and that the UK could not attract international opprobrium for having facilitated an unsuccessful transformation).

4 That if the UK Government failed to recognise the outcome of the referendum and grant independence, Shetland would become ungovernable. This would mean the vast majority of residents acting in concert to withhold taxes, boycott UK-organised elections and ignore legislation imposed by the UK, thus challenging the UK authorities to arrest the islands’ population en masse or allow independence.

 

Whilst I would love to see this happen, I do not anticipate these prerequisites being met in the foreseeable future.

[Styumpie]

I think the time is going to come at some point, there has to be a good reason for people to want to break free, the reason I can foresee is the UK becoming an unbearable burden on us, our liberties and our way of life.

 

When the time comes, the research Mr Hill has done on our status may be of great value, but forcing the issue through at this point in time is probably not a good idea when the reason for independence is not yet obvious to the majority, risking a vote that might go against it would be a disaster.

 

We have to be 100% sure the majority is strongly behind independence BEFORE we take steps to initiate it. Forcing the issue through in a haphazard way may even do some damage to our chances when the time arrives when we do want our independence.

 

So I urge Mr Hill to think wisely with good foresight about pushing too hard at this point in time, the best thing he can do is compile all data he has uncovered in a state where it's ready when the time comes, it will be an asset to the cause. But we are at a too early stage in the meltdown for a vote on independence, give it a few years.

[Njugle]

^ Two excellent posts, in my humble opinion.

 

As a partial answer to 'ew', in term of healthcare, the wholly unique Shetland Welfare Trust was considered an excellent service and beyond reproach before the SIC opted to merge it into more conventional care services.

 

In a Shetland with greater autonomy a welfare and health care organisation could, relatively easily, be set up in the same manner. Once again, Shetland does have a unique and excellent track record in this area.

[DavrossT]

Da Landys no fairing too gret noo!

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Dear Stuart

 

I have a bit of a soft spot for those of questionable sanity and have (up to a point) drawn some amusement from your carry on but lets just say (in a flying pig kinda way) that you get your wish, then this is how your future is coloured:

 

The economic hitmen will appear on your door one day and offer you a few hundred billion dollar loan in exchange for a yank military base being built and you becoming their puppet.

If you resist the temptation, then a CIA jackel will sneak in and pop a couple of bullets in your skull.

If the jackel can't get past your fine defence systems or your skull turns out to be so thick that the bullets deflect, then they will declare Forvik a rouge nation and an imminent threat to world peace and come in with the military and bomb the sh*t out of you and likely us as well.

 

You know Governments are corrupt, I know Governments are corrupt, we all know Governments are corrupt but your pizz arzing about is now becoming an embaresment to us on a national scale, so pack it in, or so help me, I will move to bloody Forvik, sign on, contact everyone coming out of jail in the UK telling them to do the same thing as Forvik is such an easy ride then spend every waking moment wandering the hills telling any passing sheep that you are in fact conspiring to fleece them and their lambs for all their wooly comforts, until they flock together and butt your ass back into the sea.

[Baron Farkoff]

Nicely put, Koy. Can we please put an end to this rubbish? I was enjoying reading the back and fore nature of this rot, but I think that everyone has made their position clear now. To recap: Mr Hill wants to make a point, Shetlinkers do not agree. Surely the end of the spite and lunacy?

 

You nutters!

[Ghostrider]

I've always been crazy, it stops me from going insane.

[Malcolm]

Getting back to these "Sea Defences". How are Shetlanders to use their "Freedom to roam" if they cannot get onto the island?

Should a group of Shetlanders on a flotilla of boats wish to land to have a picnic, see the islands beauty spots etc will the defences be removed or made safe ?

[JohanofNess]

In a Shetland with greater autonomy a welfare and health care organisation could, relatively easily, be set up in the same manner. Once again, Shetland does have a unique and excellent track record in this area.

 

I doubt it would be as easy as you might hope, NHS in Shetland can be quick to pass on responsibility by firing folk off to Aberdeen the second anything looks remotely complicated. Look how many women have to come south to give birth, if you have eye problems you have to come south unless its a non emergency and you can wait til the Aberdeen eye clinic heads north, for cancer unless its terminal (I could and probably am wrong) but I think you have to come south for that as well.

 

If Shetland were independent then these services at ARI would have to be paid for by the independent Shetland and does the Scottish NHS have to prioritise patients from an island no longer part of its domain.

 

Independence is fine if and it's a big if you get the cash from the oil and fishing then you can use it to improve the infrastructure so there isn't a need to rely medical care from another country.

[exciseman]

Consider this for a moment dear detractors of Mr Hill.

What if Mr Hill is indeed right about Shetland’s legal status (or lack of it) within the UK?

Someday soon a government in either Westminster or Edinburgh is going to realise that Shetland is being grossly over-subsided. Just think about how many hundreds of millions of taxpayer’s money have been poured into Shetland over the last 30 or 40 years.

You get subsided to the tune millions for Northlink services, millions for Air Discount Scheme, millions for Scottish Distant Island Allowance (which, incidentally, was set up to compensate for the high cost of then un-subsided travel and should have been legally scrapped years ago), millions to health services, millions to fishing, millions to agriculture etc. etc.

What an easy way to save all this money it would be if Shetland didn’t after all belong to the UK.

If Mr Hill is right (and he just might be despite his eccentricity) then some future UK government may say “Goodbye you bunch of whining, ungrateful, subsidy spongers, and by the way how about paying back the millions you’ve wheedled out of us over all these yearsâ€.

[Infiltrator]

Independence is fine if and it's a big if you get the cash from the oil and fishing then you can use it to improve the infrastructure so there isn't a need to rely medical care from another country.

 

And for me this is the whole crux of the matter - I don't believe the islands can support themselves without significant additional income from fishing and oil - and that's not going to happen.

Let's face it, neither of these industries are headed in the direction where you'd like to place the long term success of independence for the islands.

I don't believe the supporter(s?) of independence have any real idea of the economic or social impact for Shetland.

 

All I've seen so far are some headline benefits when compared to the IOM or Jersey or Guernsey. All of these islands have the benefit of being easy to reach from the most populated areas of the UK plus the benefit of a climate that encourages tourism from UK residents (and no midges).

 

The above post highlighted the islands healthcare reliance on Aberdeen, the sheer number of folk who go south each week for treatment is quite significant. So the cost of passenger travel itself is high but bear in mind that the folk are going south for specialist treatment, goodness only knows what this would cost if it wasn't paid for by the NHS.

 

Another good example is the Northlink ferry - you want independence, you'll find yourselves with 2 ferry sailings to Aberdeen each week. Look at Northlinks plans on the Shetland News website, even with the subsidy they want to reduce sailings through the winter to 3 trips a week.

 

Independence sounds wonderful till you consider the practicalities and recognise the standard of living and services that the islands currently provide.

[misty25]

What's happened wi da Landie? Has it been moved or is it still there?

[paulb]

The health service in the isle of man is way better than ours. Its better funded and staffed they don't need to medevac anywhere near as many folks out. Have a look at the costs of the health service, council, police, fire, etc. The 200 million soon vanishes. Then the farming, fishing sectors loses there grants. The taxes have to meet the demand for services. Like the isle of man and the channel isles tax credits and social benefits are very different. The only good thing is that real Manx pensioners get a better pension.

I had a friend from Guernsey they could not afford to live on there own island because of the house prices.

 

Independence maybe good but don't expect it to be fun. how would other places like the faroes have coped without aid from central government.

 

I would also forget about the oil money its not going to be there forever. What then would the island have. It would have a basic level agri/ fishing economy with little manufacture sector. forget about us becoming a tax haven we have missed that bus.

 

Look at the cost of say the new school say 50 million. that everybody on the island paying over 2000 quid. The sums don't add up we either would become a poor island or go bust.

[khitajrah]

^^It's supposed to be moved today, possibly by the police, according to a friend of mine who spent a great deal of time yesterday trying to get it dealt with by the council (who said they didn't know about it and that it was a police matter) and the police (who said it was a council matter).

[MarkusoBruntskerry]

Where i say this was on your Frovik website before you changed it, there were many persons worldwide who had given you money in exchange for a small plot but when they became unhappy with the lack of info and demanding money back the forum page changed and they were all silenced.

 

Your idea of Forvik became a farce when you started asking for money, just like your plan to get money from Shetland people to warn them of ID cards

http://www.idcardsexposed.com/index.htm

 

Alot of people myself included see this as yet another plot to harvest money from Shetland, you are no better than the UK government... at least they offer something back to us like the coast guard for example you may have been in a delicate situation without them.

 

Mr Hill i will neither retract my statement nor attempt to provide proof until you start providing proof.

 

i have little else to say with regards to Forewick Holm.

 

I don't know where you get your information, but it is incorrect. As it states on my website, the symbolic plots of land are only available to Shetlanders. Please either withdraw this remark, or provide proof.