Muppet Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 The condition of the 'boat' in Stuart Hill's own words. I quickly got on oilskins, grabbeded the phones, a torch and GPS and went down to move the boat to nearby quieter water. By this time waves were starting to come over the sides of the boat and by the time I got aboard she was swamped. In the quieter water I got the engine started, but she was so low in the water that even small waves were enough to get into the air intake and the engine cut out before I was able to bale the water out. The emergency engine was similarly affected and once I had fended off from the rocks I found myself drifting in Papa sound in darkness. One oar had gone and I found I was unable to bale faster than the wtater was coming over the side. With built-in buoyancy she floats with about a foot of water in the bottom, but the water was coming in over the side faster than I could get it out, so she remained full to the gunwhales. The 'boat' was swamped when he got aboard. If it's not a poor decision to head into Papa Sound in that condition, i'd like to know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 when does it become a poor decision?. The guy built the boat on his own good on him but if it was fit for what he tried to do it wouldn't have been sinking with him needing the life boat out to get him. It becomes a poor decision when the engines stop. The boat didn't sink, it sounds as if it was filling with water at the mooring which is why he tried to move it. He should have put to sea sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanofNess Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 It becomes a poor decision when the engines stop. The boat didn't sink, it sounds as if it was filling with water at the mooring which is why he tried to move it. He should have put to sea sooner. Sooner but still without the life vest, flares that weren't working and the radio?. Didn't expect that answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 When I suggested that an ASBO would be appropriate I wasn't joking. Obviously my main reason for believing that concerns the immediate effect Hill's irresponsibility has on the emergency services, something already well explained above. There is something more, however. It concerns the long-term rights of general society to use small boats. The UK is relatively unusual in how unregulated the use of watercraft by the public is. In many other countries people are not permitted to just take a boat out without having passed tests and being licensed. I personally think that such regulation in the UK would be a depressing and bad development, but it is not an unlikely development. What will bring on such regulation is an accumulation of Hill style incompetent incidents. If Hill will not desist from his maritime activities, even when this is requested by the emergency services, I think an ASBO would be appropriate. The existing and potential adverse effects on society of his behaviour seem to me to be larger than carrying paint spray or playing loud music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Rescuer Hylton Henry hit out at Hill and insisted he was fortunate to be alive. The cox of Aith lifeboat said: "He was very lucky. "He didn't have a lifejacket on or a VHF radio. He had a flare but couldn't use it and by the time we got there, his mobile phone battery was flat. "He was difficult to find because his boat had sunk by then and he was sitting on the surface of the water in it in the dark. "The stretch of water where we found him is one of the most treacherous in Britain. If it had been a worse night, he wouldn't have survived." Mr Henry added: "The description of the boat was a wardrobe on its back floating in the water - and that was pretty accurate. It's a humble thing and totally unsuitable for the conditions. "Now that winter is coming, I hope he realises it is not safe to do what he is doing. He will be putting other lives at risk by going out to rescue him. If he carries on like this, he will need rescuing again, there is no doubt of that." Hylton Henry probably has a pretty good idea about navigating Papa Sound and he doesn't seem overly impressed. He should have put to sea sooner. Maybe about 4 months sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Sooner but still without the life vest, flares that weren't working and the radio?. Didn't expect that answer. At least he had an anchor! What would you have done? I would have tried to save the boat, although I think I would probably have swum ashore rather than shout the CG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 He should have put to sea sooner. Maybe about 4 months sooner. Aye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 In many other countries people are not permitted to just take a boat out without having passed tests and being licensed. I personally think that such regulation in the UK would be a depressing and bad development, but it is not an unlikely development. What will bring on such regulation is an accumulation of Hill style incompetent incidents. It is probably a good idea to have some kind of test of competency before folk are allowed out on the ocean. But what if SH had passed the test? Would he lose his licence for calling out the CG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanofNess Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 Sooner but still without the life vest, flares that weren't working and the radio?. Didn't expect that answer. At least he had an anchor! What would you have done? I would have tried to save the boat, although I think I would probably have swum ashore rather than shout the CG! Well the anchor would have been handy for leaving the boat where it was and not risking my neck by taking it out when I was aware I really shouldn't do because I didn't have a life jacket, flares that worked or a radio to call for help. What if Stuarts phone didn't work, we'd probably be discussing his death. You will never convince me he did the right thing, he was lucky and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 At least he had an anchor!"w" key not working? What would you have done?Assuming I believed my nautical capabilities to be as superlative as Hill believes his to be (which despite having learned to sail somewhat younger than Hill I certainly do not), I would have pondered how it can be that the emergency services have such a different opinion. But in any case I'd have followed their recomendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 At least he had an anchor! Did he? I found myself drifting in Papa sound in darkness. If he did, then why didn't he use it? What would you have done? In a home made boat which was swamped, with no lifejacket, no VHF, one oar, a mobile phone with a flat battery, alone on an island in the middle of Papa Sound in darkness, the last thing i'd have done was get into it and head to sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 "w" key not working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 It is probably a good idea to have some kind of test of competency before folk are allowed out on the ocean.I don't agree, but that's where it will go if the services are overloaded in this way. But what if SH had passed the test? Would he lose his licence for calling out the CG?No, he would lose it for repeatedly having been found to be boating dangerously or irresponsibly. By that I mean not wearing the lifejacket, disregarding advice etc., rather than just having an incident. Hylton's comments would be highly relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 At least he had an anchor! Did he? I found myself drifting in Papa sound in darkness. If he did, then why didn't he use it?. I thought he had left the boat anchored after being rescued? Obviously, it was not a very big anchor if the boat is now wrecked on Papa! What would you have done? In a home made boat which was swamped, with no lifejacket, no VHF, one oar, a mobile phone with a flat battery, alone on an island in the middle of Papa Sound in darkness, the last thing i'd have done was get into it and head to sea. You are right. He must not fancy the prospect of a long spell on Forvik... But I think in his situation I would also have tried to save the boat - hindsight is a great thing, but if his motors had started we would not be discussing this now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 but if his motors had started we would not be discussing this now. Quite. And equally as was pointed out earlier, if his mobile battery had gone flat 5 minutes sooner, we could well be discussing something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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