Police

[trooter]

The sign was put up after the accident, but I have seen the police sitting there again recently.

[Logie-Bear]

Well I have recently seen an Ambulance blocking a main road in the town, so if i crash into the back of that, am I in the wrong or is the Ambulance driver at wrong for parking, blocking a road?

[Spinner72]

^^ There is a difference in that the ambulance would have been attending an emergency, and there is also a difference between parking in full view and in a less safe position (junction, blind bend/dip etc)

 

It will be interesting to see how the case plays out, as there are several factors involved, but the one thing that is undeniable is that if the access had not been blocked (whether by police or anything else), the accident would not have happened.

[Far Haaf]

Perhaps just a thought from English law, but isn't it correct to say that one should always drive with care, and consideration for any hazard which may appear, (Or words something like that).

What I mean, and what I think the law means, is that any driver should be responsible for the way they drive, and be capable of stopping before they hit any hazard they may encounter.

The 'capable of stopping' statement being the most important thing.

 

Maybe just a wild statement, without knowledge of Scottish law, but that is the way I see it.

 

Just my thoughts, and absolutely no offense intended to any paty.

[lerwick]

I might be wrong but were the road markings not changed after this accident ? That makes makes me think a problem was identified by the roads department ? Going at 60mph it would not be easy to stop if a stationary vehicle was stopped at the road junction faster no chance. I dont think this junction would be allowed today if planning was asked for. Some good points have been made on this topic, up to the courts though, whats for sure another fortune for our legal profession making their honest living.

[Ghostrider]

The being able to stop safely in the distance you can see is probably always going to be the main issue in this, and insofar as is known about that, it would certainly seem to be a reasonably open and shut issue.

 

The bone of contention is a secondary and possibly contributory issue. I don't know the fine print of the law on the subject, but if someone intentionally blocks an exit from a public road in such a way that someone attempting to use the exit cannot see the blockage until such time as they have had to commit to that exiting manouvere, and the person, within a "reasonable" period of time, had neither erected warning signs to advise road users of the blockage, or contacted the Police about it so that they could erect whatever signage they felt necessary. I would expect the person, although perhaps not necessarily criminally responsible, but certainly from the POV of an insurance claim, to be held a certain percentage responsible for any resulting outcomes.

 

Obviously when the Police themselves hide behind walls, they are not going to advertise their presence with signage, therefor they should have positioned themselves at such a spot, that had something else been dumped on the exact same spot of that road blocking it, that the Police would have deemed it un-necessary to erect any sort of signage on the public road advising motorists potentially about to use the exit that it was unavailable. Thus preventing vehicles attempting to use it, and then becoming traffic hazards to other road users when they had to abort and retreat from their attempted manouvere.

 

Clearly, as they have maintained from the outset, the Police believe that they were parked far enough back that they posed no hazard, as its going to court, assumedly others believe they weren't far enough back, and did pose a hazard. Its going to at least be interesting to see what the final ruling is, as it will clear up a gray area within the law concerning just how and where the Police can hide themselves legitimately.

[Ghostrider]

I might be wrong but were the road markings not changed after this accident ? That makes makes me think a problem was identified by the roads department ? Going at 60mph it would not be easy to stop if a stationary vehicle was stopped at the road junction faster no chance. I dont think this junction would be allowed today if planning was asked for.

 

The whole Gremista to Fitch stretch has never has been a "good" piece of road IMHO, it was designed and built in far too much of a hurry in the 70's. The old North Road was impossible to negotiate and literally disintegrating in front of your eyes due to the weight of traffic, and with the boat going to Holmsgarth and business fast flitting to Greimista, it was needed in one hell of a hurry. It put two folk in an early grave within months of opening, its a blooming miracle there haven't been more. I'd describe it as one of the nastiest stretches of main road in Shetland to drive.

[Evil Inky]

It will be interesting to see how the case plays out, as there are several factors involved, but the one thing that is undeniable is that if the access had not been blocked (whether by police or anything else), the accident would not have happened.

We don't know that for sure - it depends on how close behind the lorry the driver was. If she would have hit it anyway, due to it slowing down for the turn, the issue of the blocked access becomes irrelevant.

[Spinner72]

True, but lets not forget complicating the issue from a legal perspective is the van which was between the truck and the car. i may be wrong, but I suspect that as she saw the van pull out to pass the truck, the driver prepared to do the same and possibly even accelerated, then all of a sudden the truck stops, the van, due to oncoming traffic tries to pull in and catches the rear of the truck, at about which time the car driver suddenly has a wall of vehicles and nowhere to go.

 

Of course there is the basic rule of being able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear, but there is also a case for resonable assumption of the flow of traffic which is always involved in such cases. I think this photo illustrates the situation best, bearing in mind that will have been after everything had been moved as required.

[Carlos]

You have 4 parties, all of which could possibly carry some degree of responsibility for some part of the accident.

Since it's not a criminal trial it will not deal with breaches of the law, but breaches of duties of care under common law, and so have a "in the balance of probability" level of proof needed.

 

Would seem it could really go any way?

[Spinner72]

I might be wrong but were the road markings not changed after this accident ?

 

They were changed, but in relevance to this case, there is no difference between the corrent double solid line and the previous solid/broken layout. Overtaking on the way in to town was never legal even under the old markings, but nobody paid any attention. Plenty still don't!

[turningright]

I might be wrong but were the road markings not changed after this accident ?

 

They were changed, but in relevance to this case, there is no difference between the corrent double solid line and the previous solid/broken layout. Overtaking on the way in to town was never legal even under the old markings, but nobody paid any attention. Plenty still don't!

 

it was perfectly legal to overtake heading into town with the old markings.

[Spinner72]

I may be remembering wrongly,

 

Edit - I was. Checked back some old pics, my bad.

[Guest Anonymous]

its aa braaly ironic , polis were dare tryin to catch a few speeding cars to benefit wiz aa an get laanded wi dis, an dan get sued for tryin to make da road safer, couldna make up really , bizarre

[Ghostrider]

^^ I think the point is that had they chosen to park anywhere on the hard shoulder on random days and pointed a speed gun at oncoming traffic now and then (regardless of whether it was actually switched on or no), it would have had the same "traffic calming" effect as handing out tickets to the few they did manage to nab as they whizzed by the grid, but without the risk of being accused of partly causing an accident by hiding where they couldn't be seen by folk attempting to exit the main road, blocking their way and contributing towards creating un-necessary and avoidable traffic hazards.