Earth Sheltered Housing

[paulb]

horse droppings would be better construction materials than reinforced concrete and its organic too. if nigel was ever to come up here and i would guess its a very big if. he would make life more intresting. can you imagine SIC coping with his ideas that alone would be worth his move. if he really means to build these things he must have a costing for each unit and plans. if they are practical i would even let him have a bit of land to build it. so nigel how about it

[jps]

What the hell has all this crap about building thousands of underground houses got to do with moving to Shetland? After all, that is what this thread is supposed to be discussing.

Can the mods please separate this thread so that Nigel can have his own thread to sprout absolute horseturde about something he clearly has no idea about. That way we can choose to ignore this deluded fools ramblings.

 

 

 

 

***Edited to defeat sweary filter***

 

Here Here please move these posts to another thread.

[beachcaster]

Iv'e just thought of a name for Nigels new thread.

How about "Tubbytronic Superdomes - Eh-oh!"

 

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/oollit/ttlTubbytronicSuperdome.jpg

[Njugle]

While some may regard other users posting as slightly 'leftfield', Shetlink does not allow personal attacks between users. Please remember this. Thank you.

 

While some of Mr Jarmans post may seem irrelevant to this thread, he has claimed that it was/is an possibility for him to implement such schemes after a move to Shetland, and as such they do retain a tenuous relevance to this thread. For now.

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

Or Tubbytronic Superdomes if you must

 

if nigel was ever to come up here and i would guess its a very big if. he would make life more intresting. can you imagine SIC coping with his ideas that alone would be worth his move. if he really means to build these things he must have a costing for each unit and plans. if they are practical i would even let him have a bit of land to build it. so nigel how about it

 

When I have more detailed plans and costings I'll get back to you, and made a note to consider taking up your most generous offer of a bit of land.

 

If anyones got thoughts on design considerations, errors, etc. by all means speak up

[Para Handy]

^^^ Well pointed out there Njugle

 

And so far I haven’t seen anybody prove (with out a doubt) him wrong. You just have to look at the houses at the east voe Scalloway which went up in the past five years some just look like tents they might not be underground but they look as if the first gust of wind would blow them down

 

After all the Shetland planing Department is a law to if self history will prove that

[EM]

Would these be Gentec Venturi houses by any chance? Have you got a graph to prove it?

Not Gentec Venturi houses, but concrete domes,...

...I don't have any fancy graphs at the moment,

To understand this, you will need to dig back in the archives to find the posts by greenheatman.

 

If anyones got thoughts on design considerations, errors, etc. by all means speak up

Despite my reservations on your general business plan and worrying self-confidence, I find your technical proposals flawless. At the moment there is lots of interest again in sprayed concrete for shell construction as well as the super plastic pumpable stuff, but I still think the component approach you favour is sound.

[Marooned in Maywick]

After all the Shetland planing Department is a law to if self history will prove that

 

I'd expect you to find that the Planning Department work very much within the laws of the land.

 

The Councillors who act (or not) on their recommendations, on the other hand, do sometimes seem to be living in another world...not that I'm suggesting any impropriety.

[paulb]

oh go on the mods will delete it anyway just dont mention the chief ex or he will sue you. remember the million lent to his brother. as they are all independent why do they seem to follow what they are told. in other places your indies are very willing to do what the voters want not what a few big wigs with an intrest in a small isle off lerwick say.

[paulb]

ive just had a look at nigels web sites on those domes. 5 bed house with livining room dinning. big kitchen, utility two toilets ect about £100000. This is a US firm so i guess it would be more over here. it could be done for the waiting list. shame they look weird. but with planning and lots of trees you could hide them.

[Carlos]

nigel spend some time reading shetland council building regs. they dont even like non standard roofs nots sure what your pods would do.

+1

From what I have heard of other peoples' applications, any material or construction method that doesn't already have complete certification to EU approved standards will need a fair bit of work on your part to get it through.

 

Scottish building regs.

http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/tech_handbooks/tbooks2008.htm

[Hobbiniho]

Though if the house was a pre-fab, you could do it one per day..

 

http://sugoijapan.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-to-build-house-in-day.html

 

ok well those guys obviously know what they are doin but you are wanting to build concrete domes so this prefabricated timber frame video is basically useless also do you not know how bad concrete and steel are at conducting heat etc have you looked into using SIP'S panels probably cheaper and more thermo efficient, and as for the planning department giving it the ok i very much doubt they will unless these domes meet all the modern buliding regs which are quite strict, you were talking about covering these houses in grass i take it you would use sun tubes to get sunlight into the houses or are you wanting to use artaficial light, and having the services on the surface IMHO that looks horrible with conduit running everywhere and just looks a bit industrial

[Hobbiniho]

You just have to look at the houses at the east voe Scalloway which went up in the past five years some just look like tents they might not be underground but they look as if the first gust of wind would blow them down

 

are you talking about the ones that DITT have built?? the blue/red/purple ones they are a great example of timber frame/timber clad houses and are very strong indeed and also quick to put up and very well proven to stand up to the shetland weather whereas concrete domes are relatively unproven in the shetland climate, hopefully nigel will come to shetland, build one of his domes and prove us all wrong

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

A thank you to the mod for rearranging things, I just posted this in the wrong spot and have reposted it here. (Though I see I'll have to take care to use that dredded quoting system to keep everyone happy next time..)

 

Its hard to quickly find a video showing a prefabricated concrete dome house going up But as my design is half and half, it was meant to show that prefabs can be pretty quick to build, and don't take the usual 18 months we seem to see British builders take when it comes to putting up a house..

 

Video of concrete dome shell:

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaLvbdp7f0

 

Video of a not very good technique/design (Several fell down.. I imagine due to the rebar not being in the right place.)

 

http://www.videosift.com/video.....Dome-Built

 

And a poor quality video, but it does show a bit of concrete spraying. (I'm trying to look at designing it so the concrete is poured, rather than sprayed to avoid the need for spraying/pumping equipment, at least for the first one we build, though it could mean many hours mixing and pouring concrete for the outer shell..)

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iy_jtzU0k_U

 

 

> also do you not know how bad concrete and steel are at conducting heat

 

Yes, this is why the outer layer will have lots of insulation mixed in with the concrete, and being underground too will help with insulation as you wont have the wind whistling over your roof trying to suck all that heat away.

 

The inner layer of concrete panels is also to create a large thermal mass, so you won't see the tempreature suddenly change and any outside varient of temp will take a while to work itself through to you.

 

 

> you looked into using SIP'S panels probably cheaper and more

> thermo efficient

 

I have yes, cheaper and more efficient yes, but:

 

When (not if..) they get wet they rot, fall apart over time, insulation gets eaten by rodents, and tend to burn to a crisp when you get a fire, and aren't very strong when it comes to sticking a building underground.

 

Concrete on the other hand, highly fire resistant, not many things can eat it, and can last for thousands of years. (AKA Pantheon) And is good for sound insulation (A common problem between neighbours is sound pollution.), plus handy at stopping people breaking into your home by going through your wall.

 

Insulation is less of an issue if you can provide low cost heating, but things like haivng a building that can last a lifetime and doesn't need tearing down after a couple of decades can be a good way to reduce future building costs in a community. Wooden homes and fire, just a big no no. Same with plumbing leaks and wood, especially that chipboard like stuff that turns to mush when it gets wet. (I know your supposed to get waterproof wooden stuff nowdays, but reports from various people show in practice its not that reliable to stay that way.) So whilst it may not have as high an insulating level as other what one would want ideally, the difference is probably not going to be worth worrying about at the end of the day as long as their is a sizable amount there. (Some research indicates that very little insulation might not actually be a problem with an underground home, this I'm still looking into.)

 

 

> meet all the modern buliding regs which are quite strict

 

Indeed, I make sure it ticks all the boxes it should, I'd be looking for some professionals to help me out in that area once I've done what I can myself.

 

 

> you were talking about covering these houses in grass i take it

> you would use sun tubes to get sunlight into the houses or are

> you wanting to use artaficial light

 

Yes, grass.

 

I'd want to avoid anything that punctures the outer waterproof shell, its just so hard to make something waterproof so any joints are bad. I might use something like suntubes, but probably for the rooms at the back, simple artifical lights will be fine, for the rooms at the front, much like the Cumbria example, have a big window to let in light to the majority of rooms you use the most. (You can get flourescent tubes for example with daylight colour, not just the stark bright light ones you get from the local DIY store. I've been using some like that here for 9 years, as I never open my curtains anyhow.)

 

Plus with something like only a single window, it wouldn't be hard to imagine having a concrete shutter so you can button up if need be, or at least be sure when you've been out and come back, no ones burglurized you. (Less of an issue in the Shetlands, but still, it makes sense for a design which could be built elsewhere to think security, as so many homes today are just too easy to break into.)

 

 

> just looks a bit industrial

 

True, it may not be to everyones taste, and maybe later on I might look to adding access paneling on top to pretty it up. But well designed conduit can blend into a room if some thought is given to its style, eg. an example of heating pipes:

 

http://www.discreteheat.co.uk

 

Additional panelling might be needed for example to deal with the acoustics which so often are a problem with concrete buildings and domes in particular.

 

But once you fill the place with furniture, you probably won't notice it so much There are lots of issues with hiding these things in walls, leaks for example can be hard to notice, and when replacing/upgrading its not uncommon to have to rip apart walls. Plus you really don't want to effect the strength of your structure by digging out trenches to put your cables in.

 

I've spent somewhat of a lifetime seeing and hearing about bad designs, so I'm keen to try and avoid all the pitfalls I can, and design out issues which effect many of todays buildings. (Eg. concrete drainage channels underneath plumbing water/waste pipes for when they leak.)

 

Like running your conduit rather than around the walls, go straight down to the basement area and run it around there out of sight, so you might see very little of it anyhow. (The last house I had I just ran it over the walls, but I have learn't to try and hide it a little better over the years since my new girlfriend likes things to be pretty )

 

 

> domes are relatively unproven in the shetland climate, hopefully

> nigel will come to shetland, build one of his domes and prove us

> all wrong

 

One of the main issues with underground homes (And also other homes too..) is damp, no one really makes an effort to install dehumidifers/AC/etc. to keep them dry and suck out all that moisture. (My current place was a bit mouldy before I let the AC do its thing and now all the mould is dorment/dead.) Hopefully I will learn a lot living in the first one we build and it won't take too long to evolve the design to be the best it can be. I try and look at all the mistakes everyone else is making building wise and try not to repeat them.

[Nigel Bridgman-Elliot]

your going to hit problems with regs. my mother lives in a single bed sheltered housing house and it only had one door so they first had to replace the windows with ones that open so a person could get out. they then discovered that 70-80 year olds are not the best window climbers so they had to put in a fire door. so i guess the will expect two doors and windows in each room. .

 

Yes, I'm looking at having something like french windows/patio doors, so the window is the door as well.

 

It might well be that the bedroom has to have 2 windows/doors at the very least.

 

I'd also like to add a sprinkler system too, though not one that goes off every time you make toast