CCTV

[lastpubrunner]

I'm very surprised that anyone should feel that there is a need for CCTV cameras in Shetland.

 

As an infrequent visitor, I've never felt remotely in danger or under threat whilst walking late at night through Lerwick. In fact, my Missus commented on the friendliness of the few drunks that we did see.

 

I'm amazed when people on this forum mention 'gangs' of youths etc., etc. How many gangs can there be in a town with a population of fewer than 20,000 ???

 

I've two brothers and a brother-in-law in the Police (in England) and they all state that one of the most difficult parts of policing is identifying and then apprehending the perpetrators of crimes. Here in England, a criminal can easily hide in another town/city and be very difficult to find. This should not be the case for Lerwick !!!

 

I cannot see why it should be difficult for the Shetland Police to identify and then lock up those elements that repeatedly commit offences. A policy of having a strong Police presence on the streets for 8-10 consecutive weekends would soon improve matters. Concerning drunkeness and trouble on the streets, there is a seasonal pattern that the Police should/will be aware of; particularly so during Christmas and the New Year.

 

'Old-fashioned' policing is what is needed . . . . . . . isn't it ???

[trout]

I'm amazed when people on this forum mention 'gangs' of youths etc., etc. How many gangs can there be in a town with a population of fewer than 20,000 ???

 

I refer you to this:

 

Where's the "bobby on the beat" that is the "era" of policing that Shetland IS still in!

 

I LOVE the fact that you've pointed out the recent "scandal" with the apparent crazed teenage gangs in Shetland! I have held quiet for fear of my own disbelief as I thought at that point .. "Hmm... wonder if they're gonna push for these cameras now then?" !!! ...

 

Apparrently it'll be easier to convict criminals as there'll be definitive proof So thats a case of replacing front line policing with the camera then is it?

 

Hmm .. what about the fact that it is statistically proven that crimes of passion, crimes involving drink and drugs and crimes by professionals are not curtailed by CCTV. That seems to fly against the very reason they are now being introduced here!

 

So is the local police forces community policing budget now going to be spent on patrolling a TV screen?

 

An interesting aside to the introduction of CCTV can be found in this thread Have the police lost our respect? where it's questioned whether the local police force are out there enough in the community. Even less now it would seem?

[The Man]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Sorry, i dozed off for a moment there. Sheesh. Yet another topic about public disorder, yet another series of diatribes saying its all the big gad polis's fault. I have NEVER ben a fan of polis, especially in Glasgoiw where i used to live as a teenager (and all youse complaining about it up here have NO idea what their standard of policing is like! Beleive me, youd thank your lucky stars you live here if you did!!) All the comments have been heard/read before, the "dirtyt licene plates" guff (if you can prove it actually happenefd to yoiu as opposed to a friend of someone you know who heard it from his aunty's neighbour's hairdresser who got told it by a man in the pub, i'll apologise and accept it as truth). Last i heard, polis DON'T pass byelaws, by the way, i beleive that's youre elected council members who do that, on your behaqlf. Dont like it? Vote for someone else then.

 

As for "Inverness Police" give me a break. If thats not "We're shetland, we're special and should have our own polis, so get out the rest of yoiu" I dont know what is. I beleive it's NOrthern Constabulary. If you're gonna try and tell me that every cop in it (something like 700 at present) is an Invernessian, come up here as an army of occupation to keep all you decent lawabiding shetlanders in your place(no doubt because of the oil?! Yeah right!!) then the consiparicists and lunatics habve taken over the forum as weel as the asylum!!!!!!

 

Look for the answer to pronblems on your own dorrstep, instead of blaming others for a change. The gang that was going around chinning folk got away with it because NO-ONE would give statements to the polis. Why? Cos they were scared of some kids? Or cosd the resentmemnt against the polis was stronger than your sense of moral outrage and sense or what is right? The law requires corroborration (I know, i have been on the wrong end of it, thanks to over zealous and creatively imaginative strathclyde officers). Thinkyourselves liucky you havent a polis service like that.

 

As for the press release, the first one seems to me to be the problem, and it was issued by the Council, not the polis. The second one reads fine to me, but hey, I'm an incomer so what do i know??? (No doubt someone will feel free to tell me, along the usual rational lines of "Theres a planbe service/ferry every day, if you dont like it, get out!" TO them I would say, as my father did once before me, take your own advice!! See the world, try living in Glasgow or London for a while, then tell me our polis are really so bad).

 

Again, its NOT the polis puting in theh cctv, although they obvioulsy are all for it, its YOUR DULY ELECTED COUNCILLORS. Dont whinge and whine when your community elected them, have the courage of your convictions and do something about it. And that means standing against them, if you really feel THAT strongly about it.

 

Or you could just ignoire all that and take the easy, lazy option and take a poke at the polis, as they are responsible for all that is wrong with modern day society (to read somne of your comments ).

 

I am NOT a fan or even a supporter of polis, but lazy people who whine to one another then do nothing about it really gets my goat. Russia would still be an empire, the Tories would still be in power and there'd be no Labour party if everyone thouht like some of you (ie, let someone else do it, i'm too busyt whingeing!!)

 

Stand up for yourselves.

 

As to the original question of cctv, etc, i can only relate it to my own experiences in glasgow and inverness. It sorted out a lot of problems thyere, and i know a lot of people who have been victims of crime who have been genuinely grateful for it. I know some others who hate it, but hey thats life, nothing is ALL good. Personally i feel that if more people did their moral and civic duty and gave statements about stuff they have witnessed rather than just saying "Oh dearie me no! Get inviolved? Me?! I couldnt do that!!", shetland - and a lot of other places wpould be a lot better to live in. Wheres the much laudded sense of comunity when a crime happens? I know of at least two folk who refused to speak to polis about the seriosu kicking a doorman got outside Mooneys, because they didnt want involved. Unique? Naw. I know of a man permannently affetced by a kicking he got in public from some kids. No one saw a thing when polis came round. (Yeah right).

 

Sort out your own problems and maybe cctv wont be neccessary.

 

This is an invite to open sensible debate. If youre reading this and going to start with the usual replies ("How dare you" "Get out", etc) just pretend you posted them and i read them and leave it to others who have a reasoned point of view to put acroiss.

[Claudias]

I take it that The Man is for cctv. A rather Bolshy and long winded way of saying so but we get your points. Thanks.

[The Man]

Actually Claudias, in an ideal world i am most certainly noit for cctv. But as we live in an imperfect world where folk will not try to deal with sitautions as perhaps they should-ie through facing up to moral and community responsibilities and therby allowing the lawbreakers to , if not thrive, then at least get away with it- then I'll take it over doing nothing.

 

Long winded? Maybe. Bolshy? Almost certainly. As I said, there'd never have nbeen any revolutions if it had been for some folk. And change is an almost always an essentially good thing in the long run.

[Claudias]

I have a great deal of sympathy with your views about people who will not become involved,but that is a matter for a different thread.

You say that cctv sorted out a lot of problems in Glasgow and Inverness. Were these problems drink or drug related? Rowdyism?

As others have pointed out very clearly,inebriated people are unlikely to be deterred by cameras. So. Why spend all that money?

[The Man]

The problems were (and admitedly still are) to do wit public disorder. Folk being assaulted and in some instntces mugged because soemone is drunk/on drugs/a combintaion of both. Yes, it doesn;t solve the problem entirely but it canyt really be argued with in court can it, which means if you DO break the law in such a way, you're getting done for it, whereas even with eye witnes evidence, all to often the guilty walk free because some smart lawyer can twist words and play the court. If youve ever been a victim of such a crime (and i'm not talking justv to you Clauidas) you'll undersyamd what I mean. My father bore a wicked (I dont mean good) scar on his face all his adult life because of some twat with a razor blade and a drink problem. Guess what, most folk "saw nothing" and the others were painted in court as violent alcoholics and liars themselves. No conviction. And it happened at 11.30 pm on Rose Street, Edin. Today the same guy would at least have that conviction, if not jail time (alright i kmnow i'm being optimistic talkinhg about jail, but thats foir another thread).

 

Ask the victims. Its bad enough being one without knowing that the guilty party is never going to face court.

 

THATS what cctv can provide. I'd rather we didnt have to go down the route, being a distrusting cynical sort of person, but thats the times we live in and nowhere, even shetkand, is safe.

[peeriebryan]

See the world, try living in Glasgow or London for a while, then tell me our polis are really so bad

I lived in Govan for years. Do I now have the right to occasionally criticise the Shetland police or question the council decision to install CCTV?

[Claudias]

I also have sympathy with you for the root cause of your anger but I still think that cameras will usually be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Do you ever study the picture from the camera at the Market Cross? Not bad during the day time,someone with a good knowledge of Lerwick might be able to identify some of the passers-by but in the evening - pure rubbish. Nothing but glare from the light on the cross. Imagine sitting in an office watching eight or nine similar scenes.

[The Man]

Sorry, I had missed the comments folk had made critcising the council, proibably because if there are any, they are in tyhe minority as most folk seem to be laying straight into the polis. As usual.

Like I keep saying, and will keep saying and saying and saying, I am NO FAN of the polis. Clear enough? I have criticised them in the past and will continue to do so when I feel the need in future, therefor yes, Peeriebryan, last I checked we still live in a democracy, and you can make all the commenyts you want about polis. (I know, I know, you were being sardonic or sarcastic or some other "ic").

 

What irks me about some folk - NOT all - on the forums, are the ill-informed and directionless anger that is espoused towards person/s on some threads. Where its justified, not a problem. But imagine what that energy and drivce could do if focused and directed proprly, towards the REAL target of your gripes? If the particular gripe is towqrds polis, fine, directr it at them, but it seems to me - anhd I , like you PB, am entitled to a point of view - that this is the wrong target in this instance. Loby your councillors if you're not happy. Thats why we have elections and live in a democracy, so we can change the status quo by popular vote if the drive to do so is there. This is a common thread which runs through British life more and more it seems. We'll complain, but we'll never DO anything about the problem. The polis Police WITH OUR CONSENT. Fact. If they did not have the support of the vast majority of (relatively) lawabiding citizens, they'd fall at every hurdle. I did wonder myself why we needed cctv up here whe n it has been aclaimed as the "safest place in uk" to live, however Clauidas's question made me stop and think and reflect upon society - and shetland - as a whole, and how more and more of us choose to "pass by on the other side" rather than stand up and get involved.

THAT's the point I am trying to make, NOT that the polis are great, how dare you criticise. In my opinion at least two of the polis up here are REAL a*****les, however when i think of MY recent time in glasgow and edinburgh, and how we rarely ever - I mean EVER - spoke to a polis cos of their bad attitude not ours, i prefer to live in the real world and deal with what we have got. If they treat me badly upo here, i will complain. They are accountable and that at least has been proven here in shetland.

 

Does this mean you'll all turn out to argue with and hold to account or even heckle and snipe at your councillors next meeting? Or organise protest letters/petitions or marches against cctv here as is your democratic right? or will you just settlke for a few wee words on a forum somewhere? As an unconcerned bystander, i will watch with curiosity.

[Claudias]

You seem to be far from unconcerned. Are you going to organise the protests?

[Wheesht]

CCTV is a great idea, cuts crime and will help identify those who indulge in any criminal activity. If you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

 

Hell, I might even comb me hair at the weekend now if I'm going to be on telly!

[Evil Inky]

If you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

It's depressing how often this line gets trotted out when a proposal to extend the powers of the state is being made.

[Wheesht]

If you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

It's depressing how often this line gets trotted out when a proposal to extend the powers of the state is being made.

 

Why? It's true.

[Evil Inky]

If you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

It's depressing how often this line gets trotted out when a proposal to extend the powers of the state is being made.

 

Why? It's true.

 

Because it can also be used to justify all sorts of very illiberal measures:

 

Why not allow the police unlimited access to your medical records ?

If you doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

 

Why not force Jews to wear yellow stars ?

If you doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

 

I'd much rather see CCTV justified on its own merits, rather than by a generalised cliche.