CCTV

[Pleepsie]

^^^^

 

Good Heavens.....I seem to have touched a raw nerve.

 

I am all for active policing. The centre of Lerwick is small enough to be patrolled on foot by officers particularly on Friday and Saturday. This would be a greater deterant to bad behaviour than any CCTV camera.

[smaadrink]

Geddagrip!!!!^^^^^^^^

 

Sheesh! Easy seein' where your tag came from!

 

 

 

 

Well Pleepsie I don't think I am going to be able to sleep for laughing.

 

What a self righteous fool Abraxas is,Hee Hee...

 

Its amazing who can hide behind an Avatar

[Fjool]

Please now, folks, let's remember our manners. Stick to the topic please, and refrain from personal jibes.

[abraxas]

What a self righteous fool Abraxas is^^^

 

Yup, that's me, bucko!!

 

However, strickly speakin, the definition o self righteous is "confident of one's own righteousness". On this occasion, in respect o the buffoons I described in my post who have thrown a hissy-fit cuz they've received such a fine from the rozzers, I AM fairly confident, so guilty as charged, m'lud, an no amount o whingin about hidin behind avatars (I take it smaadrink is yer real name then? Didn't think so ) will change me mind or stop me airin me views just as ye do yers.

 

The second part o the definition is one I take issue with tho, cuz it sez "smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others. " If I'm guilty o that, then I think most o the forum users are also - with the obvious exception o those fine upstandin moderators (Back on track now, Mr F).

 

Here's a point. I have lived in several countries an cultures on this fair planet o ours, an the British - by an large - suffer from a cultural malady that affects the so-called "civilised" countries, only here it seems to be worse than most places. To wit, yez loooove te complain, but mainly it's behind fowks backs or behind closed doors, or in the pub, where it does exactly no good whatsoever. In the meantime, yez let the situation yez are complainin so bitterly about trundle on regardless, instead o actually doin something about it. "Politicians? They're all corrupt liars, but we'll let them run the country an set more an more restrictive laws anyways, cuz it's too much trouble te actually do something about it".

 

Before ye say anything, I have been arrested 23 times in my life, an kicked out o 3 countries (Saudi, Ecuador an Myanmar). Not because I consider myself a criminal but because I consider that my morals an conscience come first, an so did the truth (I wuz a journo in a previous life). So if there is an issue I feel strongly enough about, I will make my voice heard by seeking others o a like mind an doin - or tryin te do - somethin about it. Whether it is the plight o the folk o Comite del Pueblo, Quito (Ecuador); the Chinese oppression o Tibet; the horrors in Myanmar; the attempts te subjugate the Middle East (an the rest o the world te follow) te feather the pockets o 21st Century Robber Baron conglomerates; the enslavement o children in the Far East te provide perverted Westerners with sex slaves; or the injustices an corruption in countries such as Saudi, which through being "friend te the West" is allowed te get away with the most terrible excesses o depravity, wholesale injustices towards women an anyone that doesn't have money to speak fer them, as well as their continued an unstinting patronage o the very terrorists the Western world is (allegedly) tryin te defeat. I have protested against them all, an got the bruises te show it, from "good ol British bobbies" as well as their siblings around the globe (they were a tad heavy handed with those o us who protested peacefully against the recent Chinese Olympic torch debacle, let me tell ye, no matter what their commanding Officer told that committee!!)

 

I am not tryin te make myself out te be a saint (more a pain in the ass! ) but if I really didn't want this CCTV in Lerwick, I'd try an do something about it. Petitions, protests, lobby yer councillors an tell them their elected arses are out the window next time around if they don't do something about it. Hell, if the Flea can (seemingly) almost single-handedly threaten Mareel with the ol kibosh, surely yez can persuade him te take up yer cudgels in yer fight? At least that way, if it went ahead anyway, yez could say yez had tried.

 

But that's the malady I wuz speakin o, where most o yez complain an complain an complain, but when it comes right down te doin somethin about it, ye'll leave it cuz ye want someone else te do it fer yez, fer the most part (there are exceptions, an I am glad te count a fair few o them as friends). "What do we want? - Someone te do it for us! When do we want it? Now!!" It sets me teeth on edge, but the air is gettin rather thin up on me soapbox, all alone except fer me smugness, intolerance an sainthood, so I'm off fer a cup o Horlicks an a custard cream .

 

However, afore I leave, I'll just say one last thing. I don't count meself as self-righteous, cuz I understand an accept that yez are entitled te yer views and yer sit on yer ass laziness over issues that alledgely matter te yez. Just don't expect me te blindly swallow or follow yer views, an I'll return the favour.

 

TTFN

[Pleepsie]

 

I am not tryin te make myself out te be a saint (more a pain in the ass! ) but if I really didn't want this CCTV in Lerwick, I'd try an do something about it. Petitions, protests, lobby yer councillors an tell them their elected arses are out the window next time around if they don't do something about it.

 

If you had taken the trouble to read my posts properly, you would have seen that at no point have I said I am against CCTV in Lerwick.

 

In my first post I pointed out that Detective Chief Inspector Mick Neville, who is in charge of closed-circuit television for the Metropolitan Police Force, claimed only 3 per cent of the capital's street robberies are solved using security cameras, and also the huge amount of money wasted on CCTV's.

 

I also wondered where 13 cameras would be deployed.

 

My second post pointed out where some were to be pointed - and at the risk of you having another hissy fit - I said that it is indeed easy policing.

 

I'm afraid that I didn't put a smiley face at the end of my remark about 'a gossip in the street' as I had (obviously incorrectly) assumed that everyone would know it was a humorous aside.

[abraxas]

Well, like I said, the air gets a bit thin when ye're on a sopabox an can affect the flow o oxygen te the brain

 

But it's no just yersel I was referrin te, Mr P, there are others who have made their statements here, yet remain silent where it counts.

 

As fer easy policin, there is that argument (though I think o it as an additional tool in policin), but ye also said Lerwick centre is small enough te be patrolled by bobbies on foot at weekends. That might be possible, if ye don't allow any other parts o Lerwick, or indeed the rest o the mainland te be policed at these times. Do yez know how many police yez actually have here, or how many are on active duty at any one time? Freedom o Information will find it out fer yez, but so will just keepin yer eyes open, as I have done in past. My guess is that on a Saturday, ye'll have 6 police fer Lerwick, with maybe another an a hobby bobby fer the north mainland (if yez're lucky).

 

6 on foot would more than likely be adequate, but yez'll not get that, coz other things happen elsewhere. Or are the fowk o Scalloway or Cunningsburgh or even Bressay no entitled te police cover at these times? So some will have te be in cars, like it or not. This means they can't neccessarily be where the problems are. One place problems are likely to happen is the area around pubs (no, it's true, I read it in the papers! ), so does it not make sense then te have a camera in that area, which is ALSO capable o pannin round an coverin the WHOLE area around that area o the street, formin a network o coverage, so te speak? Does te me, but then, I'm on me soapbox again .

 

If we lived in an ideal world, cops on foot? Great, I'd have it every time, over cameras or cars. But we don't so I, fer one , am happy te "plug the gaps" with CCTV if it's available.

 

There's also the evidence aspect o the video footage. As I said, in one o my past lives I was a journo, and had crime beats in several Canadian cities an provinces, an later in several cities in England, an even in Glasgow. From experience in the courtroom, I can tell yez it's verrrry hard te argue with a close-up o yer mug on tv punchin some fella, whereas defence lawyers make a bundle out o arguin such identifications when it's just witnesses (even police) speakin te it. The "it wasn't my client, but someone dressed exactly like him, with the same missing teeth, squint eye an harelip" excuses come rollin out, or "it was dark, ye wear glasses an my client was 20 feet away. Could it be ye're mistaken" (more than 50% o the time, a good solicitor will get a "maybe" with that, an that's all they need sometimes te discount that witness' evidence - if yez can find a witness te give ye a statement in the first place, an that's not easy, accordin te cops I know back home as well as down South. The solicitors' aim is, after all, te put reasonable doubt inte the mind o the judge or jury. There's very little room for such doubt when it's on film (unless ye use the argument, "My client has Tourette's Syndrome an was not lashin out with his fists an feet at any person in particular, or swearin deliberately at the victim or Police, nor was he intentionally spitting at them upon bein arrested. It is tragic fate that this man happened to be standin next to my client at the time. Your Honour, my client is as unfortunate a victim in this instance as the victim in the wheelchair, perhaps even more so!". Don't laugh, I heard it mesel, in Leeds! He's now receivin treatment for his TS care o Her Majesty!)

 

No hissy fit, Mr P. Just havin a jaw wit yez.

[Pleepsie]

Chief Inspector Malcolm Bell heads the Area Command, with Inspector Maureen Smith as second in command, and a complement of the following officers;

 

Chief Inspector - 1

Inspectors - 1

Sergeants - 6

Officers - 26

Special Constables - 15

There are also an additional 15 support staff members, who assist the area command in various roles, from receptionists to cleaners

 

http://www.northern.police.uk/shetland-command-team.html

 

If you allow for half the Officer force to be on duty, that gives you 13 Officers - lets allow only 6 of those for Lerwick - now if you team each Officer with a Special Constable, that gives you plenty to have a some in cars and the rest on foot patrol.

[Colin]

If you allow for half the Officer force to be on duty, that gives you 13 Officers - lets allow only 6 of those for Lerwick - now if you team each Officer with a Special Constable, that gives you plenty to have a some in cars and the rest on foot patrol.

 

Not so....

 

Are you suggesting that the police work 12 hour shifts, 7 days per week, have no holidays and never go sick?

 

I think that a truer figure for those on duty at any one time might be between 1/4 & 1/3.

 

It has been mentioned before but, could this number be increased by spending the money on policemen rather than cameras?

[abraxas]

Colin, ye're on the nail, mate, as there are four shifts in Lerrick, meanin about four an a sergeant fer every shift (tho maybe not even that many as there's the Whalsay, Unst, Yell, Brae, Scalloway an the 'Ness bobbies te deduct from that 26!! No idea how many that leaves ). And are those figures pre-review, or post? Don't have the faintest fondue as te how many hobby bobbies yez have up here (don't believe it's 15 mesel, I keep seein the same 2 lads every weekend!! They don't get paid after all, an yet still have te put up with the same crap as the rest o them who do. I wouldn't do it mesel!), but say fer argument's sake it's one fer every copper , an ye'll still only have eight fowk on a saturday night, (an have te cover the rest o the mainland also, remember?). Divide them by two (they have te work pretty much in pairs) an yez have got four cars/foot patrols. Not much te cover the whole kit n caboodle, is it?, ensurin they can be everywhere for every call or outbreak o trouble, etc, so as te keep those fine armchair critics happy. Their response time - which can already be slow as they cover a rural an widespread patch - would be simply hellacious if they had to (literally)run back te the copshop an get a car every time there was a call outwith the town centre, don't ye reckon? That'd put (potentially) the lives o fowk they're "protectin an servin" (translation o their motto fer yez from the Gaelic "Dion is cuidich")at risk, an that'd never do if it was yer own family needin them, would it? (God ferbid!)

 

As te the CCTV money bein spent on more o them, ye'd get no arguments from me, an probably no arguments from them either, but it's not them who are payin fer it. Basically it's YER money, an that's why I say, if yez don't like it or want it, protest (as long as it's peaceful, mind ).

[Pleepsie]

Colin, ye're on the nail, mate, as there are four shifts in Lerrick, meanin about four an a sergeant fer every shift

 

I'm amazed that the local police only work 6 hours a day. They really would have to work 7 days a week to clock up a 42 hour week! I know for a fact that other forces work 12 hour shifts 4 days on and then have 3 or 4 rest days; 2 of those shifts being night shifts.

 

 

 

If you allow for half the Officer force to be on duty, that gives you 13 Officers - lets allow only 6 of those for Lerwick - now if you team each Officer with a Special Constable, that gives you plenty to have a some in cars and the rest on foot patrol.

 

Not so....

 

Are you suggesting that the police work 12 hour shifts, 7 days per week, have no holidays and never go sick?

 

I think that a truer figure for those on duty at any one time might be between 1/4 & 1/3.

 

It has been mentioned before but, could this number be increased by spending the money on policemen rather than cameras?

 

 

I was not suggesting that this should be a 24/7 routine but merely to illustrate that it would be possible to cover Friday and Saturday nights as these two nights had been the focus of discussion. All police forces try to ensure maximum coverage for peak trouble times and I would hope that applies to Shetland too.

[shooshjimmy]

I wirk as a CCTV operative!! you'd be amazed at whit desperate people do right in front o these cameras at times!! a good cctv scheme wid wirk alright in shetland...

[mazzymoo]

there should be cctv at the hayfield playpark. I have two young kids and I find too often, alot of little bits of glass on the ground. My peerie lass cut her a finger the other day as she picked up a piece unaware of the dangers. It wasn't serious but thats besides the point. it should be a safe environment for the kids to play.

[Ghostrider]

I wirk as a CCTV operative!! you'd be amazed at whit desperate people do right in front o these cameras at times!!

 

 

Which is an indictment that CCTV makes no, or no more than minimal difference to behaviour, is it not?

[shooshjimmy]

it isn't about making people behave different!! Its more for having better control over something, like an incident, after it has happened!! Following things up with evidence, so more crimes can be solved, which can also be used to preventing something from taking place!!

[Medziotojas]

All eyes on Lerwick as nation's CCTV capital

 

It all seems a tad excessive to me.