Ex Chief Exec - Dave Clark

[Ghostrider]

Regarding the elected members, why should they resign, be paid off or forced out? They've been elected by the people of Shetland through a democratic process "to make the decisions necessary for the people of Shetland"

 

Murky territory, and possibly something that the changes in how people vote and the boundary changes introduced at the last election have already largely eliminated the real need for, its still too early days to really tell.

 

In its politest terms, shall we say that occasionally in times past a "certain reluctance" has been known to exist among potential candidates to stand, unless the sitting member made it known they did not intend to seek re-election.

 

I'm not sure I'd support fixed terms, but giving the sitting member a little help to jump a bit earlier, rather then later when he gets pushed may on the face of it be seen as contrary to democracy, but when its actually preventing stagnation and only bringing the inevitable forward a short time, I don't think it can be entirely a bad thing.

[shetlander]

 

Who is that person, or are the group to lead Shetland into the future?

 

If you are so convinced that the current lot are making such a balls up of it, then folk like you.

 

Change can and will only happen when individuals start taking responsibility for it – instead of sitting on their moaning backsides waiting for somebody else to do it for them.

[shetlandpeat]

I would like to do it.

 

I am not bothered about upsetting the odd bod if it is for the greater good.

I think that S.I.C. as with most councils, really do not listen, they seem to have their own agenda which, is only planned for 4/5 years. Then there are thinghs programed to sat a few years longer. So as to make the following administration look worse than the previous, then the previous get in.

The councilors are there to represent the folks interests, I sometimes think that is a smoke screen to enhance their own CVs and use their position as a stepping stone. It happens alot around here.

The folk that work the hardest are thos on the shopfloor. They are there no matter who gets elected, they try to service their positions and the needs of the folk within the framework dictated to them by those who may not be so experienced.

We are going through changes here south. My job now is only to last until 2012, then I could be out. Then a private company will take over, tis a big chunk of cash available to the company that can spend it the best (or say they can)

But this is all because of elected members getting it wrong, changing and moving goalposts so as they keep their jobs and the worker ants have to deal with it.

We as a dept were making a good profit, a comercial side of the council. We took no cash from the tax payer directly and saught our own work. But one side was loosing money, but it is higher profile, the transportation of needy folk. We are now lumped together, our efforts to keep our jobs dashed and now we may start loosing them, cos as a group, we are now not profitable.

This, was to cover elected members poor choices in the past, blaming Iceland, the credit crunch and so on. They cannot blame inflation anymore, that was a good one.

So, the elected members have NO training in what they do. The worker ants try to advise but sometimes careers have to come first.

No matter who you elect in, they always seem to have a hiden motive.

Then their are thos folk who think they know what is best, not elected but can influence and change policy. Again these folk are career minded.

 

I must say though that there are many good elected members, they tend to be spread thinly like marmite, and usually get pushed to the back of the group photos.

 

Unless enough of you band together for next elections and put in the people as elected members then this sorta thing will always happen, mind there are always folk who will complain, it is just in their nature.

There are enough ideas and comments within this thread and on this forum.

 

Yet, it always seems to be the same sorta folk bein elected..

 

All of this folks is an opinion from myself in a hope to start a bit of a wider debate on how things could really be made watertight and who would be the best folk to do it.

 

I think YOU.......

[tarhellja]

I was really glad to see Gussie's letter in yesterday's Tmes, after the headline of the previous week that rather naughtily gave the reader the impression that he had made the remark. Gussie and Jonathan are both such strong personalities. They need to be on the same side here.

[Shoogler]

^^^^^^^

........and the editor of th ST didn't even try to dipute this by reiterating 'what the reporter was told', which speaks volumes for the quality of reporting on this issue.

The people of Shetland should be lobbying their councillors very hard on this because if you don't you will continue to get what you deserve.

[Caeser]

I was really glad to see Gussie's letter in yesterday's Tmes, after the headline of the previous week that rather naughtily gave the reader the impression that he had made the remark. Gussie and Jonathan are both such strong personalities. They need to be on the same side here.

 

Or was it a case of serious backtracking.............................. by our worthy wannabee convener Cllr Angus?

[north]

Peeriebrian posed some very good questions;

 

Regarding the elected members, why should they resign, be paid off or forced out? They've been elected by the people of Shetland through a democratic process "to make the decisions necessary for the people of Shetland"

 

The process to pay councillors to leave happened a few years ago if you recall, right before the election. I was a little surprised when this occurred, but it is one way to reward people for years of good (?) service and get on with the process.

 

Term limits are an effective way to enforce change. I am not completely in favour of them, but if the elected body and the electorate are caught in a process of eternal stagnation or ineffectual action - this is a good way to ensure that the process remains active. As was noted above, there may be a reluctance to stand against well connected or established representatives in a small community unless they have determined that they are not intending to run at the next election - maybe not the best driver for change.

 

Perhaps the most important observation is that the people of Shetland have elected the body in a democratic process. This is absolutely correct and is the most important part of the process. The problem arises within the elected body as they are solely responsible for internally organizing and managing themselves - and this is where they consistently fall short.

 

They alone select the Convener and all other positions including committee chairs. It is the internal organization within this body where the system appears so flawed. That the councillors appear to be unable to address major problems within their own structure and unable to ensure that their own internally elected leadership remains accountable and productive.

 

It is hard to believe that the same individual that lead the wasted investment in Smyril (and forgot to report his own earnings from it), the huge waste of money in a legal battle over the Bressay Bridge and wasted more money on deciding where to build a new school - than they spent on either Mareel or the Museum - is still in charge. This is where the credibility of the entire council is at stake. That the elected body is incapable of demanding accountability from within its own structure and unable to execute a change demonstrates that the system may be very broken. There are many capable and committed members of the council and it appears hard to believe that they are accepting the continued state of affairs - if they are maybe there is something even more systemically wrong? It is from this point specifically that I believe the necessity of reviewing the process of election, tenure and internal management of positions. Maybe internal term limits for the positions within the council is one solution?

 

I have had relatives and friends that served on the council and I was always genuinely impressed by the commitment of time and effort that they gave the role - and I see this as a sincere and basic attribute of everyone undertaking the process of getting elected. The positions are actually very demanding, as constituents are always dealing with a multitude of issues and looking for their support and assistance. In a small community, there are additional challenges due to personal, business and family relationships that make it a difficult course to steer in virtually every decision or choice. I also believe that the positions should be better paid than they currently are.

 

My current situation would not allow me to run for election - and of course, there is no guarantee that the electorate would even want me in that position anyway. I would never be so presumptious to assume that there might be any likelihood of my electibility.

 

The future lies with the current incumbents, breaking the staus quo and leading the council toward a new future. There are plenty of intelligent and capable individuals already in there, they just need to combine their individual capabilities and talents into a unified one that will get things done, be accountable and start reviewing what is going on elsewhere within the organisation.

 

Again, I ask. Who is up for it?

[EM]

As was noted above, there may be a reluctance to stand against well connected or established representatives in a small community unless they have determined that they are not intending to run at the next election - maybe not the best driver for change.

 

Surely as GR says:

... and the boundary changes introduced at the last election have already largely eliminated the real need for,

the increased number of seats per ward will have changed that situation appreciably?

 

 

Term limits are an effective way to enforce change.

Is that actually a feasible possibility? I've no idea on such things but I'd have thought such a change could only be introduced at a national level.

[north]

I think that EM is most probably correct regarding a significant policy change of the magnitude to introduce term limits.

 

The concept of internal term limits for the various positions within the council might be quite feasible however.

[Shoogler]

I was really glad to see Gussie's letter in yesterday's Tmes, after the headline of the previous week that rather naughtily gave the reader the impression that he had made the remark. Gussie and Jonathan are both such strong personalities. They need to be on the same side here.

 

Or was it a case of serious backtracking.............................. by our worthy wannabee convener Cllr Angus?

 

I aleays assume that when a councillor writes to the ST to clarify something then you usually see what they really think as opposed to what a reporter thinks they heard. Of course there is a bit of ass covering, having perhaps said something in politico fashion.

 

Of course you do realise that Gussie and Cluness are best of buddies?

 

North - your somewhat Stalinist utopia of a political system may actually appeal to someone like Dav Clark!! (however, I do agree entirely with your prognosis that there is a need for wholesale change, however it is a democracy and we had a lot of new candidates last time round and look what we got)

[icepick239]

Am still getting the hang of posting.

But stand by, you have seen nothing yet.

[Ghostrider]

Who is that person, or are the group to lead Shetland into the future?

 

It seems to me, from various sensible replies, that there are a number people on this site who could, and probably should, do the job.

North and Ghostrider to name but two.

 

So how about it?

 

I'm not saying I couldn't be talked in to standing, but I would have doubts about my electability.

 

That aside though, I can only repeat what I've said somewhere on here previously. I have personal circumstances at the moment, which are outwith my control, that would make fulfilling the requirements of the job virtually impossible.

 

Its a while until an election is due anyway, and as North says, there are a significant number of individuals already on the council who have demonstrated they are intelligent, astute and talented individuals in other spheres of their lives. For the immediate future whats needed is motivation to encourage those individuals, especially those on their first terms who by now have gained a certain amount of experience. To put to good use the abilities folk know they have, and elected them to use, to seize the opportunity that's in front of them. Take control of the ship thats wallowing dead in the water going nowhere, get a good head of steam up, set a new course, and get on with it.

 

The old guard have been foundering in a mire since summer, which they cannot seem to get out of, unless they pull something out of the hat yesterday their situation is no longer tenable IMHO. That only leaves the new blood, and it is especially to them that folk should be looking for a solution and way forward.

 

If they don't/can't/won't, well, thats what the next election is for.

[north]

Shoogler noted;

 

Stalinist utopia of a political system

 

Stalin would never have tolerated dissent of this sort. The entire council would have already been exiled to Foula. The leading dissenters would have been executed at the cross. Shetlink would have been vapourised and all participants identified, beaten then executed - then their families would have been rounded up and sent to the great wheat farming co-operatives of Yell. Anyone with the ability to draw a breath would then be inducted into the great revolutionary building programme and either drafted into the Bressay Bridge construction force, or the Anderson High School reconstruction Army. Arty types would be inducted into the Mareel cultural entertainment troupe, to keep up morale.

 

Meantime Stalin would have taken up residence at Lenynstina House and with a few trusted followers, would rule the Islands with an iron fist with no variation from the official plan permitted.

 

Sort of the goal of the current administration?

 

Say what you will about Stalin, he certainly knew how to manage a government!

[Tomblands]

Am still getting the hang of posting.

But stand by, you have seen nothing yet.

 

I'm still standing by...

[paulb]

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2009/10/27/council-reported-to-financial-watchdog-over-shannon-affair

 

2 points can we afford to house all these investigators who are coming up. maybe take over a hotel until further notice.

 

2nd why are they discussing Mr Shannon's employment in public is this not a breach of some rule or another i thought employment issues were private.