JAStewart Posted November 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 When discussing voting systems I included the following in an essay: In the UK, many are worried about the growth of the British National Party (BNP) (who got 192,000 votes in 2005), an extreme right political group who oppose immigration and multiculturalism in Britain. FPTP is praised for preventing groups like this entering the House of Commons, however if free speech is a key pillar of democracy, would it not be undemocratic to deny the BNP a seat in the House of Commons being that they might receive enough votes to merit one? One is again reminded of the timeless, oft misattributed Evelyn Beatrice Hall quote, who summed up Voltaire's beliefs simply as “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.†Indeed the beliefs of the BNP might seem irrational to a rational human, however their party continues to grow, and perhaps the most democratic way to deal with such a party is to not ban it or prevent it from gaining a foothold in the parliament, but to educate the electorate as to why they are not a wise choice to vote for, and perhaps the BNP gaining a seat in Parliament would catalyse such a happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFusion Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 The question you would really have to ask there JAS is why are they growing?If they are just a bunch of right wing facists why are people voting for them? possibly because it's the only way the public have of shaking up this government, because simply not voting doesn't really change anything. There was a lot of talk about proportional representation a wee while back, whatever happened to this? why didn't it go ahead? we all know it's a far fairer system to elect our government....why isn't the publics voice heard? In the main it really doesn't matter who you vote for, in the end it's still going to be a politician running the country, and IMHO they are all out for themselves. They all spout promises to get elected and then give back the bare minimum untill it comes to the next election where it all starts again. That said if proportional representation did come in it wouldn't be very democratic to exclude the BNP. After all without the far right what would you have to compare against. It's the old without hate how do you know what love is?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 The question you would really have to ask there JAS is why are they growing?If they are just a bunch of right wing facists why are people voting for them? In the main it really doesn't matter who you vote for, in the end it's still going to be a politician running the country, and IMHO they are all out for themselves. They all spout promises to get elected and then give back the bare minimum untill it comes to the next election where it all starts again. It's probably that kind of attitude that helps the BNP support grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 bnp/snpthough the snp dont wear skinheads they are still an extremest party. they dispise the english. having lived in a mill town in the north of england for 15 years its not as clear cut as most people think. the old towns like burnley/rochdale/blackburn and others are not one community they are totaly devided by race. my daughter went to a school that was about 75/25 white and there was no trouble untill the 7/7 bombings. then gangs of asian youths were beating up the white kids on the way out of school. now im sure that they were getting stick from the others but when the police have to spend weeks patroling the school routes to stop the fighting is worrying. Im no supporter of any extremest party. but if you were to live in a dedivided community you will get trouble. The white population belive that the other community is better provided for ie funding/schooling/housing. now this is not true they are more deprived and the areas are recieving more funding to bring the standards up. but its a precieved threat hence bnp gain support were there are such problems. dont assume that there is no racist activity in the asian community there is. if you look at the burnley riots of a few years back you would have believed that it was white on asian but this was not so there were two gangs those from asian and white communities they lived good 5 miles apart. its funny how they manged to meet up. the losers were the shop keepers and a pub.it does not matter what you are hatred is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFusion Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 The question you would really have to ask there JAS is why are they growing?If they are just a bunch of right wing facists why are people voting for them? In the main it really doesn't matter who you vote for, in the end it's still going to be a politician running the country, and IMHO they are all out for themselves. They all spout promises to get elected and then give back the bare minimum untill it comes to the next election where it all starts again. It's probably that kind of attitude that helps the BNP support grow. And why do you think people are taking this attitude?People only know what's printed in the press and released in the newsand that is generally only what the politicians want you to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted November 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 ^ People? Who falls in this category? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 ^^ Agreed about the press, but when you consider the three newspapers with the biggest circulation in Britain are 1. News of the World2. The Sun3. Daily Mail(Source http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Newspaper-circulation#United_Kingdom ) Its scary to think that such a high percentage of the voting public get their views on politics in this country and abroad form this utter horsesh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFusion Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Um, I dunno maybe them folk fae mars... what kind of question is that JAS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFusion Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 that's not the only source of news tho Seaflech don't forget the BBC et all...there's probably more that watch the news than buy papers(Figures anyone?) and just because it's on Tv doesn't make it any more true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 All the news is, is scaremongers.. to get peopel buying there paper or number fo viewers up. Just read the front page of the Shetland times this week If you got caught up in it like the shet time has you belive you may aswell you and jump of the knab at lunchtime because we are all doomed yes times are bad, but jysus that graph on the front page is a perfect example of picking out the one part of the whole story to make a drama story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted November 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 People only know what's printed in the press and released in the news Again, who falls into the category of 'people'? I don't just get my sources from TV or Newspapers. I get mine from academic journals, personal experience and so on. Am I people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 BBC News 24 and Sky News almost neck and neck with 3.3million viewers per week. News of the World, 3,470,000 The Sun 3,148,000Daily Mail 2,340,000PER DAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 People only know what's printed in the press and released in the news Again, who falls into the category of 'people'? I don't just get my sources from TV or Newspapers. I get mine from academic journals, personal experience and so on. Am I people? your a minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFusion Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Thanks for the Figures Seaflech, I stand corrected(again)but still, news is only what what they feed you..like twerto said scaremongering mostly the old "doom and gloom" I get mine from academic journals, personal experience and so on. luck you, you get to read Academic journals they must be true if they're Academic(tosh) personal experience? living in shetland with your head in a book doesn't count as much Experience to me...have you seen things like PaulB talked of first hand? other than on the TV or in papers etc? I think twerto was right there, you are in a minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted November 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 People only know what's printed in the press and released in the news Again, who falls into the category of 'people'? I don't just get my sources from TV or Newspapers. I get mine from academic journals, personal experience and so on. Am I people? your a minority You're Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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