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europe should we stay or should we go?


marlin13
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should a national poll be held to determine whether we should stay in europe  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. should a national poll be held to determine whether we should stay in europe

    • yes as soon as possible
      14
    • yes immediately after next elections(uk)
      0
    • don't know
      1
    • no
      6
    • I don't belive in referendums
      2


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After the tories cast iron guarantee about a referendum now history, when will some mainstream party give us the opportunity to have our say on europe. If we had had the chance(and it was always going to be a longshot based around other countries stalling) of voting down the lisbon treaty, perhaps it would have given at least some of our politicians some backbone.

 

I have been trying quite hard to find real reasons for staying within europe but am struggling to think of any. Please feel free to suggest some.

 

I believe that the principal of a free trade area isn't a bad idea but it will never just be that. However personal experience is that there is more paperwork involved in intra european trade than dealing with virtually anywhere else in the world !!

 

How can we have a situation where we are effectively governed by an unellected body composed in great of ex has been uk politicians and their families.

 

Please note I have referred to uk only as it appears unlikely that any referendums will happen in edinburgh!

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Nobody can argue about the disaster that is the Common Fishery Policy. However many projects in Shetland have gone ahead because of EU funding. This article from 2006 gives a flavour of the projects supported.

 

To date, Brussels has approved around 275 million Pounds ($516.9 million) of project financing to Shetland

 

The EU has a policy of supporting peripheral areas. Would a UK or independent Scotland have the same policy? Remember one of the reasons that Scottish devolution was not popular in Shetland was the perception that an Edinburgh government would be less interested in remote areas, instead supporting Central Scotland.

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I don't believe we should have a referendum.

 

How many people who would vote would completely have read the Lisbon Treaty? A significantly low percentage.

 

Why decide something based on ignorance?

 

I haven't read it and I would vote for it - I don't think that makes my vote valid.

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To trust the government to act on behalf of our interests regarding our euro status is extremely naive at best. I trust them to act in their own personal interest only.

 

To deny a referendum on this issue is wrong, if the majority are against what the Lisbon treaty stands for, even in a broad sense we should have the right to the final say.

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The only reason I can think of to stay in Europe is me cheap ciggies when I go on me hols :wink:

 

I have no problem with the original reason for going in, that being the "Common Market" but the EU is no longer just that. Therefore, I'd opt for leaving the EU.

 

What really gets my goat is that I wasn't old enough to vote to enter the Common Market and yet years on, democracy is being systematically denied to European citizens.

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Theres one thing that politians fear more than anything else and that is democracy. Even Tavish doesnt want a referendom on Scottish independance. They are terrified to bring in PR in England because the BNP will probably hold the balance of power. And how many countries in the EU would have ratified the Lisbon treaty had they given thier citizens a vote ?. Not many would be my guess. Gordon Brown believed in it so much he couldnt even bring himself to sign it with the other leaders. It is a total disaster for our fishermen and a betrayal of our country. David Camerons U turn is probably even worse than Gordons lie. And finaly to suggest that we wouldnt know what we were voting for is an insult to our intelligence .

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Guest Anonymous

Looking at this from a Norskie point of view. Given that the Norwegians have voted twice to stay out, and given that the Norwegian fishery is in a better state that that of Shetland, I'd have to agree with the "get out" element on this.

But, on the other hand. All over Shetland there are signs which state that road building projects were part funded by the EU regional development fund, or whatever it's called. Hence Shetland has roads which are fit to drive on, and well,, Norway needs a bit of work in that department.

 

There will always be good points and bad points about EU membership. Europe will never work properly as a community until it becomes a single entity without the drain of individual countries governments, never mind devolved parliaments, and local councils.

Maybe in 50 years time all the dross of local and national politics will be abandoned, Europe can become a single entity/country, and the Germans will have captured Europe at last.

 

But before then, I would support any vote which gives Shetland, Scotland, and even England, any way out of the EU. :wink:

 

(All statements with tongue firmly in cheek, so don't shoot me too quickly)

Gettin me coat

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Muckle Joanie reckons we have recieved grants of 275 million , yes maybe but what as a country have we paid in during the same period ? What has our fishing industry afloat and ashore lost due to the C.F.P's disastrous management policy ? What will we lose in the future now that the Lisbon treaty is ratified ? They can now rewrite laws without consultation and the first of the new euro taxes are on the drawing board .

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And if you felt a bit angry on hearing of westminster mp's skimming there expenses , then hearing that for the last 14 years the european union have failed to get there book-keeping to add up to the tune of well over 100 million every year .

In fact when the head accountant decided to make this public knowledge they did the democratic thing and sacked her.

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I have been trying quite hard to find real reasons for staying within europe but am struggling to think of any. Please feel free to suggest some.

 

Today is rather an apt day to be asking this question. We can complain all we want about the EU, and there are many things wrong with it, but in its original purpose it has been very successful. Less than a century ago, two wars were fought within Europe and millions of people died; today we squabble about incompatible national interests and pointless beurocracy. The second option may not be great, but it's definitely better than the first. Political and economic integration makes war within Europe so unlikely as to be virtually inconceivable.

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