Judane

[Marooned in Maywick]

Would Caroline Miller being a councillor really make any difference, if she has to declare an interest and leave the chamber whenever decisions regarding Judane are being made?

 

If you consider the hypothetical scenario whereby Councillor Miller agrees to vote with Councillor X on, say, a school closure-type vote in return for Councillor X voting to write off the Judane debt, then I'd say yes...it does make a difference.

 

Not that I'm suggesting Cllr Miller has taken that approach - the situation I've described is purely hypothetical and made up by me as an example.

 

In fact I've not checked to see if the writing off of the Judane debt was even voted upon.

 

But something certainly stinks and, for once, it ain't fish.

 

Is there some sort of period of time during which the SIC could recover the £much if the directors do decide to sell the building?

[mainlander]

Ocht, yes, I had forgotten the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" type of thing. Although she would have to be scratching an awful lot of backs for quite a while for this one, I would have thought!

[Marooned in Maywick]

I'm sure £400,000 would buy a lot of back-scratchers.

 

Especially at Chris Hodge prices.

[Ghostrider]

^^ Had it been immediately after elections it might not have been so bad, but this council is 2 1/2+ years in to its life. That's 2 1/2+ years that Councillor Miller has been a working colleague of all of those who had to make the decision, 2 1/2+ years during which she has very likely established professional relationships of one sort or another with all 21 of her colleagues.

 

To put it bluntly, she inevitably will have a certain number of "cronies", as every Councillor inevitably has "cronies" come this stage of the game, who will cover each others backs and not be seen to do each other down, regardless of the subject at hand. Loyalty to colleagues over-rides duty of position, especially when all that's at stake is other people's money. In theory such things "should" not happen, but human nature being what it is, even with a concentrated effort of an individual to remain impartial, an underlying bias is almost impossible to totally eliminate.

 

Put it like this, how many of our Councillors would have had the bottle to look Councillor Miller in the eye when she returned to the meeting after the agenda had moved on to other business, and said,"Oh, hi, we've just bankrupted you", especially when they could sign off on it like it were Monopoly money, no comeback.

[Infiltrator]

Given the debt sits with the CT which is effectively public money, maybe someone should ask to borrow the motor cruiser for a weekend or have a discounted holiday in the Tenerife appartment (or is there two?)

The whole sorry tale stinks and how she has the brass neck to sit as a councillor beats me

[paulb]

its even more simple than that if you owe a few hundred in council tax you can't stand. so if you have 400,000 that rule must also apply.

 

there is no reason to accuse her of any criminal wrong doing. implying you scratch my back an i will yours is a criminal offence something of public office.

 

you should not stand for public office if you owe the public. how about donating her earnings to a charity to make up some of the loss.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm sure £400,000 would buy a lot of back-scratchers.

 

Especially at Chris Hodge prices.

 

I've actually got one of those back scratchers. One of the best things Dodgy Hodgy sold. Got it from one of my daughters for Xmas 2007, brilliant thing.

[icepick239]

It is hoped that Mr Grant will indeed give a full and open account of what happened regarding Judane in Wednesday's 'behind closed doors' session.

It appears that no money has actually been paid by the Judane Directors at all, but there is now some kind of agreement/promise placed on them to pay back to SDT 200k over the next two years.

 

Therefore, shouldn't the true position be:

Bad Debt 600,000 Write-Off (It is believed, offsets are not allowed under Standard Accounting Practices))

Yr ! Bad Debt Recovered (100,000) - per agreement

Yr 2 Bad Debt Recovered (100,000) - per agreement

It is wondered where these repayment monies will actually come from

and what are the possibilities of total recovery of the Debt?

[Marooned in Maywick]

Ocht, yes, I had forgotten the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" type of thing. Although she would have to be scratching an awful lot of backs for quite a while for this one, I would have thought!

 

What think you of the whole sorry mess?

 

As someone intending/hoping to work and live here d'you agree that it's an absolute scandal that such a sum of money can disappear?

[mainlander]

It certainly seems a very unusual situation, and I'm not sure I have really got my mind round the whole thing properly.

 

I assume it was a limited company which is why the personal assets of the directors are not involved?

 

However, from what I have read it seems that it was a business set up by local folk and employing local folk, which came to grief when the bottom fell out of the specialised knitwear market. There were then a couple of opportunities for the council to reach agreement with the company on various things (I have the impression that the council at that time would have recovered more money than in the present agreement, but I might have misunderstood that) which fell through. As it seems that the council could now be sued for more money than Judane owes (or otherwise they would just let the directors get on and sue them if they took action to recover the money), presumably the council messed up big time in some way which it is not at the moment confessing to!

 

Even in big business, it is often the same "entrepreneurs" who pop up time and time again starting businesses which sometimes succeed and sometimes fail, and I expect the same is true of Shetland. On the mainland, big companies (often foreign) are always coming in, getting millions in start-up grants, and then leaving when the grant money runs out. They never seem to have to pay any of it back.

 

In terms of council money being wasted, it seems to me that hundreds of thousands are always being wasted by councils all over the place (Gaelic school signs in areas where there will not be one single person who only understands Gaelic is a pet hate of mine!). At least there was an attempt to create local jobs involved in this particular situation.

 

So, I totally agree that it is a scandal that the council messed up so badly that they are unable to recover that much money.

 

But without knowing more about it all, I would be wary of putting in place systems which would mean that folk would be put off trying to start businesses - after all, a spectacular failure could be followed by a success with lessons having been learned from past mistakes. Presumably if the market had not collapsed, the company would still be going and providing jobs?

[icepick239]

^ I guess only the main participants are fully cogniscent to what really happened, from back then until now.

Complete openiness is what is really required.

 

If (as mainlander says) the Miller's insurance case might actually be to their benefit, then maybe it should be tested in court by them.

They were able entrepreneurs and employers it seems and no business that goes down (due to adverse business reasons) is a cause for anything but great sorrow.

 

The SIC being involved in building 'structures', both large and small would surely carry Professional Indemnity Insurance that would chip-in in the event of incorrect professional advice being issued, resulting in a financial penalty to their client?

I don't know, I only ask?

[Para Handy]

£400,000 in the pocket is a great reason to become a councillor.

Maybe that's not the reason, and I have no doubt that the Bressay folk thought she was the best person for the job, but it looks like that could have been part of the reason for Ms Miller becoming a councillor in the first place.

Or am I the only one who thinks that?

 

 

No Auld Rasmie your not the only one who thinks that

[Marooned in Maywick]

However, from what I have read

 

That's a fair chunk of reading. Where did you find all that?

 

 

So, I totally agree that it is a scandal that the council messed up so badly that they are unable to recover that much money.

 

Do you agree that Judane's directors ought to feel some moral responsibility to repay the money they received (minus reasonable expenses)?

[Lastditch]

No up on these financial things but, does that now mean that they can sale the building for say £350,000, give the £200.000 to SIC and keep the rest to themselves.

If thats the way of it then summat is wrong somewhere.

[mainlander]

However, from what I have read

 

That's a fair chunk of reading. Where did you find all that?

 

 

So, I totally agree that it is a scandal that the council messed up so badly that they are unable to recover that much money.

 

Do you agree that Judane's directors ought to feel some moral responsibility to repay the money they received (minus reasonable expenses)?

 

I have given you my thoughts on the matter so far, Marooned in Maywick, and really don't have anything else to say about it just now. Feel free to post your own thoughts without the benefit of my further wisdom to guide you!