Firm blames planners for redundancies

[ll]

It would be nice to see the 22 houses on the West Hill of Scalloway developed. The road for these was consructed a long time ago now and looks an unsighly scar on the hillside at the moment.

 

There was a planning application to build a house turned down out past Port Arthur for being in a SSSI around 10 years aro, but after this a large road road was cut into the hillside all the way out to Pundsvoe and associated industrial steel framed buildings erected to pump excrement!

 

The current house zoning policy is a casino, bears no rhyme or reason and really needs to be completely overhauled. In addition many areas of land currently zoned as 'suitable' for housing are not available to buy or even remotely suitable for house building.

 

In the current JHB application a lot of the land is poor quality, but the land adjacent to the Mill Brae is good ploughable land which would be shame to use for housing. Taking the location of the school, pool, proposed health centre and fire station into account it would make sense though to expand the village to the other side on some of the poorer quality land.

 

One of the last developments in the Scalloway area by Hjaltland was permitted to be built right next to an industrial estate at the head of the East Voe. After the houses were built, their residents were able to thwart plans for a slaughterhouse in the industrial estate.

[Greenfingers]

If the rules which are applied today regarding planning were applied in the 1960's then Lerwick would have stopped at Clickimin.

The reasons for refusal of this scheme seem pretty pathetic to me. Others have already been addressed on this topic but the one which made me laugh was that additional pressure would be put on the Scord road with all the additional traffic which this scheme would generate. It's a main road for goodness sake. It can surely handle a few more cars. Dosn't seem to be a problem in Lerwick with nose to tail traffic at least a couple of times a day on the north and south roads.

I think that the Planning Dept., and councilors who are part of the decision making process, need to take a step back and consider the needs of the people that they serve instead of "ticking boxes" and serving the non-productive needs of the bureaucracy which the planning process has become.

[Guest Anonymous]

not that i bide in Scallawa or visit very often , but the main route through the place is quite blind n cramped at best, and not that i need to care but would East Voe not be a better place to live/build as on the side of a steep hill

[MuckleJoannie]

In the current JHB application a lot of the land is poor quality, but the land adjacent to the Mill Brae is good ploughable land which would be shame to use for housing.

 

The only area of ploughable land that would be affected is a strip that will be where road access goes in. The area that is to be developed is on the west side of the boundary fence at the top of the ridge.

 

I've found a map showing the National Scenic Area.

 

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/1051/0058088.pdf

[ISOT]

From what I was told today JHB's problems are more than just this project.

 

I actually popped along to view the designs at the public meeting(but couldn't stay for the meeting) and felt that they were pretty dire. I know that's not why the planning application was defered but if we're going to build something at least let it be something decent and thoughtful.

 

 

JHB's problems are common knowledge at the moment which are not directly related to this project so you have to ask yourself why put all your eggs in one basket when you know the past record of planners and applications which are not so clear cut?

 

Do you not think that this can be put down to bad planning by JHB in the first place and now they are using the planning committee as an excuse for their company's current problems?

[Kavi Ugl]

Yes, there was total agreement among those I spoke with on Saturday that what we heard on Radio Shetland was pure sour grapes and clutching at straws from JHB.

 

I'm not sure who designed the scheme but the worst parts I saw resembled a mix of the Saxa Vord houses scheme and the farm building at Veensgarth.

 

There seems to be a current total lack of understanding between the developers and architects in terms of creating new and imaginative architecture in Shetland.

 

What Hjaltland have done in some of their recent schemes is a step in the right direction but there is still much room for imprprovement.

[sailor]

Scalloway has had a good rate of expansion over the last few years. East Voe has seen alot of new decently laid out housing which sits well in its location. the harbour saw good development in the late 80s and 90s which is still underused. The sewage scheme was up graded roughly 10 years ago too. There is the housing development ready for houses at Port Arthur (22No. I believe).

 

I have seen the development plans proposed by JHB and where the area lends itself to housing the plans are very crampt. I don't know the exact areas for each house site but they are nothing like the sites at East Voe, or any other current development in Shetland. The roads need a great deal of work to satisfy the need for the development. This all can be overcome and if there is a real need for the houses it should go ahead, with space better considered. The area for industrial development looks good too and could be well utilised by new businesses in Scalloway. An item that modern councils and public forget too easily is that every town and city in the world (except for newtowns) grew around industry and that keeping businesses and housing apart is not, in my opinion, entirely sensible due to increasing travel costs and the possible reduction of fossil fuels in the future.

 

To answer the point made at the start of this topic, a business blaiming the planning process is laughable. If the council had granted the planning the civils work required for the developer (JHB) to get on site and start building would have taken many months and a great deal of money which may not have been on the table unless HHA put it up (or the SIC with their housing plans). If the developer is having money worries now the how do they expect to invest further into it and go further into the red.

 

To blame the SIC is a bit of an insult to the workers looking for jobs this week and the suppliers/sub contractors looking to settle their bills. With workers being paid by other construction firms in Shetland at present it looks like a lean term is to be expected for the construction industry and the SIC capital programme underspend (dare I say disaster) at present is not helping.

[ll]

It would seem there is very little land left in Scalloway that is actually available and 'zoned' for housing.

 

The only large areas left deemed 'suitable' accoring to the Shetland Local Plan are across the road from the scord quarry where you are underneath a main road and a stones throw from where explosives are blasting rocks from the quarry and the undeveloped site on the West Hill.

 

If you look at the village of Scalloway on itself, there has been very little house building in comparison to other villages in Shetland in recent years.

 

Does anyone know when the homes on the West Hill are going to be started?

[MuckleJoannie]

JHB have been planning this development for several years and I am sure that they have been in contact with planning all that time. The question of good agricultural land only arose after the planning application was submitted.

 

The reason given for the more cramped layout of the houses was to make it in keeping with the tightly packed houses in central Scalloway. The East Voe schemes are meant to have a more rural feel.

[Willow]

I do not live in scalloway nor have i seen the proposed plans for the houses Hjaltland wanted to build. I would just like to say i find it funny how a local building firm can place all the blame for there financial problems purley on a planning application being turned down. JHB has been rumered to be having financial difficulties in the past, not just on this occasion. If they are short of capital now. How did they plan to build anything? No one surley with a sound mind would pay upfront for a house before seeing it built to some extent. The people i feel for are those who have been paid of and have to find alernitive employment. All because of a company bitting of more than it can chew, and yes, putting all eggs in the same basket!

[Girzie]

Yes, they have been in some financial difficulties for some time according to rumour which can have little to do with this plannign application being turned down. There are plenty of areas throughout Shetland with outline planning permission where they could build but as stated previously this is pure speculation which the plannign department recognized....

[Ghostrider]

Just working from memory here, so stand corrected if wrong, but....

 

I seem to recall not all that many years since JHB was a main player in a plan which (I think) went through planning, (and was approved??) to build a significant estate of new houses at the Ness, namely to house the CHC-Scotia staff who took over the SAR chopper contract.

 

As far as I am aware nothing came of that (presumably because CHC-Scotia secured alternative accomodation for their staff).

 

Just seems a little strange that (if I'm recalling correctly) a scheme of some significant size (I don't recall how many units were planned, certainly less than Utnabrake, but more than your average between 4 - 8 or 10 speculative estate build norm) which got the green light of officialdom to proceed, but failed to do so due to (presumably) a change of heart on the part of the prospective buyer, got zero negative public outpourings from this firm. Yet, one which isn't even blocked, simply delayed by officialdom, and there's bad mouthing said officialdom straight off.

 

The CEO of JHB was quoted in the media as saying "some folk will say we put all our eggs in one basket, but we were led to believe it was a pretty safe basket" or words to that effect (presumably the CHC-Scotia plans were a rather unsafe basket?!?). Yup, I think most folk are thinking the former, but when it comes to the latter, you have to question how anyone could believe such a thing as a "pretty safe basket" existed where SIC Planning was involved, after the altogether questionable, dubious and downright screw up they made not a Million years ago viz Judane/Miller/Hodge.

 

Yes, its tough on the folk that relied on a JHB pay packet that now aren't getting one, and its tough on folk who are waiting on a house to rent in that area, but for once I'm far from convinced that much if any of the blame for that lies with officialdom.

 

Certainly the desision to reject Hjaltland's own application at Herrislea put a new spin on the application at the 11th hour, and had this been allowed when their's hadn't, it would have just been fuel for more bickering, and aiding their appeal. IMHO Herrislea would probably have gotten the green light had it not been for the weight of public opinion at the meeting, deferring Utnabrake was really the only sensible option until the ramnifications of the reasons for rejecting Herrislea were considered in an overall context.

 

This was, for once, the council doing, what I believe they should always do. Being aware of public opinion, and the changes in it, and amending their decisions and poilicies on the hoof to suit. For quite some time the need for housing has over-ridden the need to preserve the more productive agricultural land, unless in areas where it is of "prime" (relative to the island as a whole) quality. The public in general have gone along with that attitude, but that changed with the Herrislea decision, some folk apparently reckon enough productive land has been lost already, and are willing to dig in their heels and take a stance. Had they gone any other way with Herrislea and Utnabrake there would have been the usual griping going on that the council were ignoring the opinion of the folk they allegedly represent, like there frequently (and IMHO very justifiedly) is.

 

Seems to me that JHB's problems are more likely due to either the company being aware of work drying up, and have tried to rush this scheme through a bit too quickly and without having ticked all the boxes, or have answers to all the questions that might arise. Or, they simply did "put all their eggs in one basket", put all of their resources and efforts in to this, and didn't chase other work, as they knew the only way they could realistically complete this scheme was with everything and everyone they had dedicated to it. A very rash, and dangerous strategy IMHO, ideally something like this should be bubbling away on the back burner while the company trades on without it, and continues to trade regardless of whether it comes to fruition or not. When you endanger the future of your business for one job, either that job is too big for your comapny and/or your company is far from healthy already. Significant commitments should only start being made to jobs once there is a certain level of security they will pay back those commitments, something like this that effectively is nothing other than a slew of ideas on an Architects drawing board that a few civil servants have made reasonably encouraging noises about, is simply a pipe dream until and unless some signatures are collected to make it happen. There was no security of anything until all permissions were signed, sealed and delivered, finance arranged etc etc.

[ISOT]

Has anyone heard anymore news on this, will they be entering new plans, are they still working and have they paid of any bad debts?

[KTL]

I have a feeling that the Port Arthur "housing" development was actually just an excuse to build a quarry for infill for other road projects. It avoided the need to actually apply for a quarry.

Ask yourself, have you ever seen these "sites" for sale?

As far as utnabreck goes, if Scalloway is to have more houses (and my god it needs it), would folk rather it happened in a planned way with a proper development, or in a Gulberwick way with threes and fours being build at a time in a random and disorganised way?

The application in Gulberwick (near driving range) about 10 years ago was for a big development of about 20 - 30 houses. It was rejected by planners after local objections, "good" agricultural land being one of them. What happened? 20 - 30 houses got built in dribs and drabs over the next 10 years. The result is a mess of roads, shambilic design and no infrastructure.

[paulb]

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2010/02/10/taxman-seeks-230000-as-pressure-mounts-on-troubled-building-firm

 

can't afford to pay the tax man but able to raise 30 million.

 

i see they are hoping for a donation from the planning folks. this is why the council must defend any claim even if it costs more. if they become easy targets then we will be losing millions.

 

if the scheme is of any worth could the council or housing association not take over the project. and use this firm as the builders with support. it could save jobs and get the councils housing project off to a very good start.