Council budget cuts

[Longdog]

jeez it's easy for everyone to get their knickers in a twist about some council worker who takes the vehicle home, easy target eh?

 

These people are hardly the fatcats at the top of the tree are they. They are the actual people on the ground doing the work for us.

I actually had a works vehicle once in the dim and distant past and I got taxed extra for the privilege, it's not free. You usually have to record both work and non-work miles and taxation is based on that. I also had to find some where to park the big ugly thing with the council name on it and work stuff in it. Not exactly like geting a car free...

 

It's a bit of I scratch your back you scratch mine. You take the van home (and look after it there) and it's convenient for getting to work etc. and I don't have to have a massive secured car park or compound to store all theses vehicles securely as well as the space for all these people park once they've driven to work.

 

Also means less cars on the road.

 

In terms of budget cuts I don't think some can see the wood for the trees

[MuckleJoannie]

I was just thinking the same. These discussions seem to end up bashing the visible targets when there are economies to be made if those in council departments actually examined how their departments were run.

[paulb]

ok 3000 staff minimum say £15,000 = £45 million

most nearer 20k so £60 million

cut a third of the staff and you save £15-£20 million.

forget the anderson rebuild and fix the buildings at least for the next 10 years saving lost interest and other costs.

reduce the level of services to that of other Scottish councils.

forget fancy building schemes and associated jollies to Glasgow fix or rebuild the terminals.

make sure we milk the oil and gas people for every penny that we can. they are not poor and they will pay.

 

of course no one will agree to this so what can we do. how about cutting the wages to that of the rest of the uk. share back office services with other councils.

[unlinkedstudent]

jeez it's easy for everyone to get their knickers in a twist about some council worker who takes the vehicle home, easy target eh?

 

These people are hardly the fatcats at the top of the tree are they. They are the actual people on the ground doing the work for us.

I actually had a works vehicle once in the dim and distant past and I got taxed extra for the privilege, it's not free. You usually have to record both work and non-work miles and taxation is based on that. I also had to find some where to park the big ugly thing with the council name on it and work stuff in it. Not exactly like geting a car free...

 

It's a bit of I scratch your back you scratch mine. You take the van home (and look after it there) and it's convenient for getting to work etc. and I don't have to have a massive secured car park or compound to store all theses vehicles securely as well as the space for all these people park once they've driven to work.

 

Also means less cars on the road.

 

In terms of budget cuts I don't think some can see the wood for the trees

 

On the contrary, it is not the people who are easy targets but the managers who permit it. So, if said vehicle got nicked from outside your home, you'd be paying for it and the insurance premiums in future then? How does it mean less cars on the road?

 

I note that it is taxable but does SIC do this and advise HMRC accordingly? Whilst the Inland Revenue may say dropping a child off a school is not declarable, I don't see why I, as a mere Council Tax payer, should be paying for someone's juice to get their kid to school (school buses obviously an exception, etc.). How many times have people seen SIC vans in supermarket car parks? Apparently that is not allowed.

 

Unfortunately, as there are no trees in this part of Shetland, I can see the wood quite well - perhaps we should have Judge Judy as the next Convenor?

[hardanger]

Yes .. and full pay for the first 6? months, then 1/2 pay for the next 6.

 

Yep, you can self certificate for 5/7(not sure) days then you can be off under the doctor for 6 months on full pay. All you have to do is submit a doctor's line/sick note along with your timesheet.

 

As I understand it, at the end of those 6 months your pay is indeed cut to half but you can come back to work for, say, two weeks then go off again on full pay.

 

 

 

 

And they want to save money......

I dont work for the council but my employer has the same agreement, I thought everybody had it.If you are off for 6 months you go down to half pay, but if you come back to work, and go off again you are only on half pay.After a year you don't get paid.

 

Gosh!, you don't seem to live in the real world. The vast majority of manual workers in the UK get statutory sick pay (about £80.00 per week) if they are off ill and the first 3 days of sickness are unpaid.

[piggywiggie]

Right I say we all stop complaining about van drivers and give these men a break they jsut do their jobs if it wasnt for them wir roads etc would be pants.

and Honestly im biting my tongue I dont wanna explode

[Infiltrator]

The main cost saving that will be coming is from jobs. SIC employs a heck of alot of people up here, and jobs will go (through natural wastage as the council does not support redundancy). The problem I see with this is the economy relies of the council for jobs. loose a few hundred council posts, this impacts local businesses such as shops etc. It is a chain reaction. which could wreck the Shetland community. I think that it is important to support council employment up here and attempt to maintain its levels.

 

Another huge mistake in cost savings IMO would be to cut subsidies and local contracts. Cutting subsidies to things like piers, buses would again bring the community to its knees.

 

Where to look for cost savings (IMO):

Ferry fuel - cut the frequency of ferries off peak, saving fuel

Paper - switch to (where possible) E-mail and PDF

Electricity - switch of every other street light sunday- thursday after 10pm

Printer toner - Take out colour printers and replace with monochrome in council offices/ schools

Relocation Allowance - end this

Put all public buildings on timers to switch of electrical appliances at nights

Put public services on same levels as the mainland (ie. Waste collection, gritting, street cleaning

 

There is too much money to be saved before going down the route of ending services and loosing staff. What I have posted is scraping the surface, but I am sure there are copious amounts of savings available.

 

Herein lies Shetlands dilema, with 25% of the employed population being funded directly by the council, combined with forecast reduced income from Sullom Voe, and population also forecast to reduce, it doesn't take a genius to realise that reduction in services and staff numbers will be required in line with a shrinking economy.

 

Here's the stats again http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/Apps2/Business/PQA/default.aspx?pq=S3W-20360

 

Printer toner doesn't require a pension, sick pay, island allowance or any of the other benefits that council employment offers (doesn't take a van home either) I'm not saying the cuts mentioned aren't worthwhile, but they're very much a short term gain in comparison to staff reductions.

 

The council have been hiding their collective heads in the sand for a good number of years now. They're now gambling on the hope that the wind farm will now help subsidise the local economy.

 

Look at the stats again, once the council waste away the reserve fund, how long do you think the government will continue to subsidise a public service so dramatically out of line with other local councils?

 

Even to come into line with Orkney would require a reduction in council posts of something around 1,000+ people which is a cut of 25+% of the current workforce.

[Longdog]

I note that it is taxable but does SIC do this and advise HMRC accordingly? Whilst the Inland Revenue may say dropping a child off a school is not declarable, I don't see why I, as a mere Council Tax payer, should be paying for someone's juice to get their kid to school (school buses obviously an exception, etc.). How many times have people seen SIC vans in supermarket car parks? Apparently that is not allowed.

 

Unfortunately, as there are no trees in this part of Shetland, I can see the wood quite well - perhaps we should have Judge Judy as the next Convenor?

 

As you obviously don't know the way these things are managed why do you assume people are ripping off the council by using their 'juice' and it not going through the books?If it is done above board you are taxed on your personal milage so personal use is irrelevant, as it's accounted for.

 

Less cars on the road as you don't have every van driver and their oppo's driving into Lerwick to pick up their vans and the rest all seperately before leaving their cars there and driving back out to where ever for the day before returning to leave the van and all drive off home again seperately.

 

It works out well for the council in the end and saves them hassle.

 

As for lack of trees it seems you have enough mops heads to cloud you jud(y)gement

 

Nuff said on vans for me, they're the least of the worries for the SIC and I'd guess way way down on the list of saving that could be made from what I've heard, read and seen...

 

P.S. Don't explode piggy wiggy it'd be awfully messy and a man in a van might have to clean you up God forbid, he may even have to go straight from home to do it to save time and wasted mileage We'd have to have a budget cut for all piggy wiggies and the mess they make

[unlinkedstudent]

I note that it is taxable but does SIC do this and advise HMRC accordingly? Whilst the Inland Revenue may say dropping a child off a school is not declarable, I don't see why I, as a mere Council Tax payer, should be paying for someone's juice to get their kid to school (school buses obviously an exception, etc.). How many times have people seen SIC vans in supermarket car parks? Apparently that is not allowed.

 

Unfortunately, as there are no trees in this part of Shetland, I can see the wood quite well - perhaps we should have Judge Judy as the next Convenor?

 

As you obviously don't know the way these things are managed why do you assume people are ripping off the council by using their 'juice' and it not going through the books?If it is done above board you are taxed on your personal milage so personal use is irrelevant, as it's accounted for.

 

Less cars on the road as you don't have every van driver and their oppo's driving into Lerwick to pick up their vans and the rest all seperately before leaving their cars there and driving back out to where ever for the day before returning to leave the van and all drive off home again seperately.

 

It works out well for the council in the end and saves them hassle.

 

As for lack of trees it seems you have enough mops heads to cloud you jud(y)gement

 

Excuse me? I have read the attachment from DaveH re the Inland Revenue. I have worked in Complaints for a Local Authority too. Whilst in theory IF it was done correctly mileage sheets would be submitted and it is dependent upon the employer whether or not the fuel is paid for, unless we do a Freedom of Information Act request (oh heck, now I'm tempted) we DON'T KNOW. That my dear friend, is contrary to not knowing how these things work.

 

Oh do come along ... we have the marvellous car-share scheme in Shetland. If the van driver can pick up his crew en route to a job in the Council van which, if I'm reading you correctly, he'd pay the fuel for anyway, why can't he do the same if he was driving his car?

 

IMHO and from experience, SIC wastes money on calling at Tenants' properties when said Tenant has indicated what his mobile number is and don't call on so and so day because I'll be at work. Then there is the old scenario of knowing what job needs to be done as Clerk of Works has already attended only to have to return to depot as they haven't brought out the right part. Perhaps communication is the key.

[JohanofNess]

unless we do a Freedom of Information Act request (oh heck, now I'm tempted) we DON'T KNOW.

 

Are you really that upset about it, give the flea a shout he'll smile and nod as you make your complaint and pass it on at the town house.

 

Oh do come along ... we have the marvellous car-share scheme in Shetland. If the van driver can pick up his crew en route to a job in the Council van which, if I'm reading you correctly, he'd pay the fuel for anyway, why can't he do the same if he was driving his car?

 

Because it's not just the fuel he would need compensated for it would be the wear and tear on the vehicle and the depreciation for the additional mileage done not to mention that his car might not be able to carry all the necessary people and their stuff to the depot.

 

IMHO and from experience, SIC wastes money on calling at Tenants' properties when said Tenant has indicated what his mobile number is and don't call on so and so day because I'll be at work. Then there is the old scenario of knowing what job needs to be done as Clerk of Works has already attended only to have to return to depot as they haven't brought out the right part. Perhaps communication is the key.

 

In those circumstances the clerk of works is at fault for not relaying the scope of works to the staff can't blame the boys if the work sheet isn't filled out right, stick in a complaint about the clerk.

[unlinkedstudent]

^^ Brief response - how do you think those in the private sector get to work?

[JohanofNess]

^^ Brief response - how do you think those in the private sector get to work?

 

Our staff have a van, paid for by us and those not driving get paid for the kilometres they travel to work all provided for under the working rule agreement.

[paulb]

you pay people to get to work. thats very generous of you.

[JohanofNess]

you pay people to get to work. thats very generous of you.

 

Got little to do with being generous it's the deal made by the construction industry joint council. They don't get paid for travel if it is within as the crow flies 15km it's only above that just in case any of the rest of you want to march on Westminster to stop the injustice of some folk getting stuff that you don't.

[unlinkedstudent]

I knew several people working in the construction industry when I lived in London and none of them got paid to get to work!

 

Edit: come to think of it, I did secretarial work on a construction site - now could I have whacked in a claim for sex discrimination then if my male counterparts were getting paid to travel to work?

 

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