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Independence for Shetland!


Jonners
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Where do you stand?  

128 members have voted

  1. 1. Where do you stand?

    • Full independence
      55
    • Crown dependency
      30
    • Keep the status quo
      47


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Where does independence stop?? Until we are devolved into individual villages, seeking to hold onto the natural resources closest to us. Civilisation and greed turns full circle with yet another layer of bureaucracy.

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That's a very good point, nic. I often wonder that myself; is every person to become a nation of their own?

 

Why the trend towards separatism and division, rather than unity and cooperation? Always seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.

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This is a trend going on all over Europe. I think it has to do with the EU. As more powers have been given away to the EU, cooperation and unity is well taken care of by that organisation. So a lot of regions and former countries who might not have the strongest connections to or the warmes feelings about their central governments find that they want to have controll themselves over the few issues not in the hands of the EU. Or you could just say its a counter reaction. As power goes further away, from London to Brussels, people want to have it closer.

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It is now the case that the majority of the laws in this country are forced upon us by the EU.

 

We've lost fishing rights, the rights to control our borders, the rights to spend our oil money the list goes on...

 

The EU is simply not designed for the benefit of island communities and that's why Iceland, the Faroes and Isle of Mann are doing well to stay out of it.

 

The worst part of it is the financial deal for Shetland. The UK gets back around a 1/4 of the money back in puts into the EU to subsidise Eastern Europe, how much of that 1/4 feeds its way back to Shetland?

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This is a trend going on all over Europe. I think it has to do with the EU.

Yes, we have had a two-way process in Europe in the last couple of decades. Integration at a European level, and devolution at a "regional" level. Of course, devoltion will only happen with the support of the people in that "region", so the answer to the question of where it ends is really when there is no longer support for it.

 

The EU is simply not designed for the benefit of island communities and that's why Iceland, the Faroes and Isle of Mann are doing well to stay out of it.

Shetland is a little against the current when compared to the other "distinct" island communities of northern Europe. They differ in ther relationship to the EU, but neither the Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Ã…land, Greenland or Faroe Islands are like regular parts of the EU. The latter two are almost like non-members. They are able to do this due to their varying degrees of autonomy. If the Shetlanders want to have a voice with regards to their relationship to the EU, then the obvious answer is to begin to campaign for some degree of autonomy.

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I believe Greeland is the only country to have ever left the EU as it joined as a part of Denmark (if i got it right) they voted agianst joining in the national EU referendum but still had to join at that point. After some years they were given Home Rule and decided to leave the EU while remain united with Denmark.

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I believe Greeland is the only country to have ever left the EU as it joined as a part of Denmark (if i got it right) they voted agianst joining in the national EU referendum but still had to join at that point. After some years they were given Home Rule and decided to leave the EU while remain united with Denmark.

This is a good point. In other words, there is actually a presedence for a political entity that has joined the EU as a part of a larger political entity to then leave after obtaining autonomy... without actually cutting all ties to the "parent country", one might add.

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It is now the case that the majority of the laws in this country are forced upon us by the EU.

 

Er, this is clearly a massive exaggeration. The 'majority' of laws in the UK still come from Westminster and Holyrood.

 

The worst part of it is the financial deal for Shetland. The UK gets back around a 1/4 of the money back in puts into the EU to subsidise Eastern Europe, how much of that 1/4 feeds its way back to Shetland?

 

This is not true either. I don't know where you've got this figure from but it's not correct. If I remember correctly, it's actually about the other way round - 75% comes back to the UK one way or another, and places like Shetland tend to do relatively well, since we are rural and peripheral, and therefore, in an EU sense, disadvantaged. The actual figures are pretty complicated to quantify I think, but I'll try and find them - Office of National Statistics should have them.

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Shetland is a little against the current when compared to the other "distinct" island communities of northern Europe. They differ in ther relationship to the EU, but neither the Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Ã…land, Greenland or Faroe Islands are like regular parts of the EU. The latter two are almost like non-members. They are able to do this due to their varying degrees of autonomy. If the Shetlanders want to have a voice with regards to their relationship to the EU, then the obvious answer is to begin to campaign for some degree of autonomy.

 

In fact, the usual opinion in the field of Island Studies, at least, is that drives for devolution benefit from a strong EU, which weakens the powers of the nation-state far more than it does the powers of the region. It's not just that Man, Ã…land, Greenland, and other similar islands have different relations to the EU than does Shetland; they partially owe their relative independence from their respective mainland powers to the sort of international, "Europe of the Regions" approach that Brussels uses in order to gain leverage over the governments of the individual EU member states.

 

Also, don't blame Europe for the loss of the fishing fleet: The lesson of Faroe and Newfoundland is that even independence from EU dictates will not necessarily save this industry. The EU is a convenient excuse for things going wrong, but consider: Very few people honestly let the central governments in Holyrood or Westminster off the hook when EU-spearheaded deals turn sour. This is precisely because we all know that the UK (or Denmark, France, or whoever) could avoid these situations if they so chose.

 

The EU is a sheep in wolf's clothing for small, insular communities.

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This is not true either. I don't know where you've got this figure from but it's not correct. If I remember correctly, it's actually about the other way round - 75% comes back to the UK one way or another, and places like Shetland tend to do relatively well, since we are rural and peripheral, and therefore, in an EU sense, disadvantaged. The actual figures are pretty complicated to quantify I think, but I'll try and find them - Office of National Statistics should have them.

 

If that's true how can getting back 75% of what you put in be a good deal?

WTF are we in the EU for anyway?

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In fact, the usual opinion in the field of Island Studies, at least, is that drives for devolution benefit from a strong EU, which weakens the powers of the nation-state far more than it does the powers of the region. It's not just that Man, Ã…land, Greenland, and other similar islands have different relations to the EU than does Shetland; they partially owe their relative independence from their respective mainland powers to the sort of international, "Europe of the Regions" approach that Brussels uses in order to gain leverage over the governments of the individual EU member states.

I'm not sure that is so relevant wih regards to, for example, Man, which already was a crown dependency, but you are are obviously correct in what you write.

 

The EU is a convenient excuse for things going wrong...

Well, I am actually pro-EU and would like to see my own country join. In the post you quoted I was just trying to present some facts for those who want to see Shetland have more of a say in its relationship to the EU. If the Shetlanders feel disenfranchised then they are the only ones that can act on it.

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It is now the case that the majority of the laws in this country are forced upon us by the EU.

 

Er, this is clearly a massive exaggeration. The 'majority' of laws in the UK still come from Westminster and Holyrood.

 

The worst part of it is the financial deal for Shetland. The UK gets back around a 1/4 of the money back in puts into the EU to subsidise Eastern Europe, how much of that 1/4 feeds its way back to Shetland?

 

This is not true either. I don't know where you've got this figure from but it's not correct. If I remember correctly, it's actually about the other way round - 75% comes back to the UK one way or another, and places like Shetland tend to do relatively well, since we are rural and peripheral, and therefore, in an EU sense, disadvantaged. The actual figures are pretty complicated to quantify I think, but I'll try and find them - Office of National Statistics should have them.

 

 

The majority of our laws are on the direction of EU directives and regulations which must be followed through in Westminster and Holyrood as a result of our membership.

 

UK contribution to Europe shall be over £6bn in this tax year when we were told last year it would be £3.3bn - the increase is a result of Tony Blair's agreement to give up part of the UK rebate

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