Independence for Shetland!

[Roachmill]

as I said there was no pictish Kingdom of SCOTLAND, there were several pictish kingdoms but they were not united.

United / not united... that can be debated but never proven either way.

 

As for your ancestors... as I understand it the Picts in Shetland weren't wiped out by the Vikings. They were assimilated and the Pictish gene, supposedly, lives on:

then what you are saying is that the norse and the picts interbred or coexisted therefor we have to be the rightful inheritors of this land

Uh... yeah. That's exactly what I meant. Only in your head. If you read what I wrote I was refering to your "he [McAlpin] never came on the scene until after our ancestors settled Shetland" line. By "our ancestors" you meant the Vikings, right i.e. since the Picts were already here and settled? The point I was trying to make was that Shetlands ancestors include a mix (all be it in the Vikings favour I would guess) of both and that the Picts of Shetland and the mainland were getting done over at roughly the same time.

 

As for "we have to be the rightful inheritors of this land", I couldn't agree (yup, you read that right ) more.

 

I'm not blindly accepting his word it is what I was told by my grandfather, certain teachers who did so outside of the curiculum and from papers that were available for all to read at the museum prior to BS getting his job.

Are you saying that Brian Smith, when appointed, actively withdrew papers from public access to suit his own personal agenda? That's what it sounds like to me.

[sheepshagger]

United / not united... that can be debated but never proven either way

 

a roman map of britain shows seperate pictish kingdoms, the most northerly being the kingdom of Orcadia.

 

The point I was trying to make was that Shetlands ancestors include a mix (all be it in the Vikings favour I would guess) of both and that the Picts of Shetland and the mainland were getting done over at roughly the same time.

 

getting done over by differant folks though, the isles and caithness got done over/conquered by the vikings and the celts did over the rest. differant folk differant cultures, what you may find surprising is a lot of folk(not a majority mind you) from the caithness area also feel the same way I do.

[abraxas]

Ahem... This meetin o Pedant's Corner is hereby called te order!

 

"Medievalist Alex Woolf, interviewed by The Scotsman in 2004, is quoted as saying:

 

“ The myth of Kenneth conquering the Picts - it’s about 1210, 1220 that that’s first talked about. There’s actually no hint at all that he was a Scot. ... If you look at contemporary sources there are four other Pictish kings after him. So he’s the fifth last of the Pictish kings rather than the first Scottish king.â€

 

Many other historians could be quoted in terms similar to Woolf."

 

(For example, Foster, Picts, Gaels and Scots, pp. 107–108; Broun, "Kenneth mac Alpin"; Forsyth, "Scotland to 1100", pp. 28–32; Duncan, Kingship of the Scots, pp. 8–10. Woolf was selected to write the relevant volume of the new Edinburgh History of Scotland, to replace that written by Duncan in 1975.)

 

An', furthermore...

 

"The annals report the death as that of the "king of the Picts", not the "king of Alba". The title "king of Alba" is not used until the time of Cináed's grandsons."

 

An', te finish...

 

"Pictish recorded history begins in the Dark Ages. It appears that they were not the dominant power in Northern Britain for the entire period. Firstly the Gaels of Dál Riata dominated the region, but suffered a series of defeats in the first third of the 7th century."

 

See! I told yez we were here first! Now, all o yez "Vikings"... GER ORF MOI LAAAAAND!!!

[Dagfinn]

...and the future inhabitants of Shetland, will increasingly be of Asian origin, so what?

 

What matters is where the "heavy decisions", which affect the life of local residents are made; in the local council, or several houndred miles away, by people who have never been to the place.

 

Population trends for Shetland and Faroe:

 

Shetland: 1931: 21.500 ; 2007: 22.000 -> increase ca. 0%

Faroe: 1925: 22.800 ; 2007: 48.000 -----> increase ca. 110%

 

The difference between Shetland and Faroe in this period is called Home-Rule.

 

I think the numbers speak for themselves.

 

Just thought I´d give you guys some facts, rather than doubtful racial and historical claims on the table.

[Wheesht]

.

The difference between Shetland and Faroe in this period is called Home-Rule.

 

Surely you mean Danish rule, dependancy and reliance?

[Rasmie]

Of course if the Shetland was to win aboriginal peoples rights, become independent and win its rights over its lands foreshores and fishing and oil grounds. it would bankrupt the UK never mind an independent Scotland.

would Broon and Salmond send a gun-boat?

[Dagfinn]

Surely you mean Danish rule, dependancy and reliance?

No! I mean Home-Rule, which means that the Faroese themselves make decisions about most matters "at home" in the Faroes (except police and miltary/navy etc.)

 

Dependancy and reliance, sure when it comes to Foreign Policy, Monetary Unit etc., but what really matters on a daily basis, is that you don´t have to phone Copenhagen every time you want to go to the toilet, where you guys need permission from Edinbourgh to do so.

 

This is not fiction: http://www.tinganes.fo/Default.aspx?AreaID=11

[Dagfinn]

Well, the dependency on the Foreign Affairs front is also limited, it seems:

....In addition to the EU and Iceland, the Faroes have entered into regional free trade agreements with Norway and Switzerland as well as a Most-Favoured-Nation Treatment Agreement with the Russian Federation..........

The Faroes are in their own name a full member of the North Atlantic Marine Mammal Commission (NAMMCO), and an associated member of the International Maritime Organisation (IMO).........

Faroese Representations are established in Brussels, Copenhagen, London and in Reykjavík. The Representations in Brussels, London and Reykjavík are established in cooperation with the Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, thus granting diplomatic status to the Representatives.

http://www.tinganes.fo/Default.aspx?ID=1595

[Trønder]

Yes, it seems you want EFTA membership, which would require even more power transfer from Copenhagen.

[Carlos]

I see (correct me if I am wrong) a lot of support for the idea of independence as a way of increasing wealth in Shetland.

 

If the hypothetical deal on table instead left us just a little bit worse off, would you support that as a price worth paying for Independence?

[Wheesht]

Monetary Unit etc., but what really matters on a daily basis, is that you don´t have to phone Copenhagen every time you want to go to the toilet,

 

So Faroe are not up to their necks in the financial reliance of Denmark?

[Styumpie]

If the hypothetical deal on table instead left us just a little bit worse off, would you support that as a price worth paying for Independence?

 

Absolutely, Having direct control over our own affairs is priceless. I cant see what is good about being dictated to by the UK government. I do not like the path the UK government is taking us down. I do not want to be living under a totalitarian government, The UK has some major issues, we need to break free, and take full control of our own affairs, so we can be allowed to prosper.

 

I think establishing closer links with our close Nordic neighbours will be a good thing, they seem to be heading in the right direction.

[Roachmill]

United / not united... that can be debated but never proven either way

a roman map of britain shows seperate pictish kingdoms, the most northerly being the kingdom of Orcadia.

The Pictish people were all about yonks afore the Romans came. The Romans only gave them their name. So I wouldn't take one of their maps as gospel. Like I said - it can be debated til the cows come home... and get further and further OT.

 

The point I was trying to make was that Shetlands ancestors include a mix (all be it in the Vikings favour I would guess) of both and that the Picts of Shetland and the mainland were getting done over at roughly the same time.

getting done over by differant folks though, the isles and caithness got done over/conquered by the vikings and the celts did over the rest. differant folk differant cultures,

Been saying that all along. That's the second thing we agree on

what you may find surprising is a lot of folk(not a majority mind you) from the caithness area also feel the same way I do.

If you and some of the folk fae Caithness want to celebrate getting done over by the Vikings then be my guest. I'll carry on crying into me pint for the loss of the Picts

[Ghostrider]

I see (correct me if I am wrong) a lot of support for the idea of independence as a way of increasing wealth in Shetland.

 

If the hypothetical deal on table instead left us just a little bit worse off, would you support that as a price worth paying for Independence?

 

As long as the numbers add up to give a point of financial break even plus a modest few percent to be a buffer against trade fluctuations, there's every reason to go with independence. The freedom of being able to do more or less what we want to do, how and when we want to do it, and removing the omnipresent reality and risk of London and/or Edinburgh plundering and/or pawning/trading/throwing away our assets at will is well worth the possible loss of any surplus above a break even balance sheet.

[Trønder]

So Faroe are not up to their necks in the financial reliance of Denmark?

To some degree, but not up to their necks. If the petroleum industry is developed, as is hoped, there will be no financial reliance at all. It could then be used to develop other competences for the post-petroleum era.

 

I think establishing closer links with our close Nordic neighbours will be a good thing, they seem to be heading in the right direction.

Then associate membership of the Nordic Council would be a good place to start.

 

If you and some of the folk fae Caithness want to celebrate getting done over by the Vikings then be my guest. I'll carry on crying into me pint for the loss of the Picts

I find both peoples fascinating, especially if we found some evidence of a pre-Indo-European language among the Picts.