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Independence for Shetland!


Where do you stand?  

128 members have voted

  1. 1. Where do you stand?

    • Full independence
    • Crown dependency
    • Keep the status quo

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^^ The Danish king was also the Norwegian king, two seperate posts, but held by the same person, and in pawning us he was acting in his capacity as Norwegian monarch only...

Yes, this is correct. The treaties regarding Orkney and Shetland are very clear on this. Here is a shortened version of the former:




As you can see it says;


"...we, Christian, king of Norway, with consent and assent of the prelates, magnates and greater nobles of our realm of Norway aforesaid, give, grant, pledge and mortgage and place under assured pledge and security all and sundry our lands of the islands of the Orkneys with all and sundry rights..."


, and:


"...until whole and full satisfaction and payment is effectually made by us, our heirs and successors, kings of Norway, to the foresaid James, king of Scots, his heirs or successors, of the sum of fifty thousand florins of the Rhine remaining of part of the dowry..."


The treaty with regards to Shetland is very similar, but I haven't been able to find an online source for it.


I believe though that in the Act of Dissolution (or whatever it was called) in 1814, when Denmark and Norway separated, it was Denmark that retained the (theoretical) rights to Shetland, along with Faroe, Iceland and Greenland.
No, actually Faroe, Iceland and Greenland were specifically mentioned in the treaty of Kiel to remain with Denmark.

Freyr is correct. The 1814 Treaty of Kiel does exclude the Faroe Islands, Iceland and Greenland, but not Shetland or Orkney. To quote the Swedish version of the treaty:


"Dessa Biskopsdömen, Stift och Provinser, innefattande hela Konunga-Riket Norrige med alla dess Inbyggare, Städer, Hamnar, Fästningar, Byar och Öar utmed hela detta Rikes kuster, tillika med deras tillhörigheter (Grönland, Ferröarne och Island här under likwäl icke inbegripne);"


This translates roughly into:


"These bishoprics, dioceses and provinces, including the whole Kingdom of Norway with all its inhabitants, towns, ports, fortresses, cities and islands along this realm's coasts, likewise with their possessions (Greenland, the Faroe Islands and Iceland here nevertheless not included);"


So, any theoretical historic right to redeem Orkney and Shetland still lies with the king of Norway.


But I'm all most certain the last time Denmark looked into Shetland was in the seventies. One of my grandfather's stories was of being at a dinner with the Queen and discussing it with her at the time.

I suppose they could have looked into it, although I must admit that I find it hard to believe, but the relevant documents would have quickly led them to the conclusion that it was a Norwegian matter.


I am pleased to say I was able to trace down the danish law proposal from 2001. It states that any pawn documents in relation to Shetland would not be affected by the law proposal (with referall to an answer by the minister of justice) as the matter is Norwegian and not Danish. "Imidlertid synes det omtalte panteforhold ikke længere at være relevant for Danmark, da øerne tilhørte Norge og gælden (jf. justitsministerens besvarelse, bilag § 7-88, af 2. marts 2000 af Finansudvalgets spørgsmål nr. 26 af 25. januar 2000, bilag § 7-78 ) vedrørte Norge."


Yes, I have seen this before... on Wikipedia, I believe.


I get the feeling some may view me as some sort of Norwegian national romantic exentric when I post like this. I am not under any dillution that Shetland would ever again be "part of" Norway.

I would like to second this. The future of Shetland should obviously be in the hands of the Shetlanders. I like to get the history right though.


However the history, commerse, common challenges regarding resources, nature and a whole bunch of other issues does make it even more sensible for Shetland to have close cooperation with Norway then it makes for Scotland itself.

Yes, as I have said in other threads on these boards I think it would make sense for Shetland to look into some sort of observer membership of the Nordic Council.


Oops, what a long post... :oops:

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Not sure I can really ask this here as we've all been told this isn't a "Stuart Hill" thread but how does he finance these Shetland Independence stunts?

If £1,500 is a trifle (plus all his opponents legal costs probably), booking pretty much every hall in shetland for "free" talks, all these elephant adverts. Found about 15 different web-sites not many of them seem to be income generating.

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Guest Anonymous

as a complete aside, i had a bitching april fools planned to say denmark staked a claim to shetland over the history. i wrote up half of a fake bbc news report based on this guys template (an old april fools):


but then i saw the real story about the whole denmark thing and i figured it wouldnt be worth doing. then i cried a little.

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No sherrif will find for him, as mentioned it would be a legal and constitutional disaster.


There will be no way he will win.


Snowball's chance in Hell doesn't even go there.

I agree. I doubt they will even consider the challenge.


I agree, however, doesn't this make a lovely job of exposing how law "really" works?


Unless they uncover the legal documents no-one else has been able to find, all the Sherrif can say is that the courst juristiction stands "because it does".


Isn't it also a wonderful paradox that if the case did go Stuart's way, surely the ruling would immediately be void? :)

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According to da poll, over 2/3 of us want more autonomy. Why not get a proper petition started?


A petition that we could sign in our local shops and online would be very popular I'm sure and will provide a strong sense of what the community wants.


A successful petition would demand a response from the SIC, our MP and MSP and would perhaps get the ball rolling.


A petition for generally more autonomy or a petition to withdraw from the devolved government in Scotland and thus try and attain Crown Dependency status from the UK would be a decent start.


Perhaps an idea for Stuart to show that he does have support to proceed with his aims?

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