Shetland ForWirds website

[Malachy]

The group's website was launched today:

http://www.shetlanddialect.org.uk/

 

Lots of stuff there to explore by the looks of it.

[Fjool]

The audio dialect map is an awesome idea. Now... if only I could coax my broken installation of Quicktime into playing them.

 

Idioms are good too.

 

In fact, there's a lot to commend this site.

[Njugle]

Yeah, It's a nice site. Being picky, I ken folk fae Cunningsburgh with stronger accents, and have also always believed the Moncrieff Scallowa accent to be just that, the Moncrieff accent. The only other person I ken with a similar accent is related to them.

 

Great site and great resource though.

[Ghostrider]

^^ Dir twa very distinctly different Cungel accents, as sumeen fur want o' a bettir wye o' explainin hit, sed, da 'nipit' een and da 'awpen' een. Bit dats laekly maistly deed oot be noo tuh.

 

Nae doot dir a lok a guid gear athin yun site, bit Im upoa twa minds whidder he's mebbe juist ower "boannie", an laekly ta gie da idee hits aw juist a "curiosity" an no a dae ta dae thing is muckle is sharn an greth is.

 

I'll sae naethin aboot a 'crieffie, my auld grit-graund aunt produced a braw twatree o' dem, so hit laekly cud be sed I wid be biased.

[Guest Anonymous]

Weel dun Shetland ForWirds.

Fair lichtened da hert o dis auld craetir.

 

Cheers,

Da Auld Een

[Ghostrider]

Okay, so its only taken me nearly 9 months to get around to checking the site out properly....

 

Yes, the idea, and I daresay the intent/motivation is good, and I have no desire to detract from it....But, and its maybe just me, but this really irritates me. The following is a quote from the site front page....

 

If you want ta keen foo da dialect cam aboot or juist curious aboot wirds, dan geng ta John Graham’s dictionary; if you want a taestin o Shaetlan literature, dan you can wale trow poetry, prose an drama; if you want ta keen whit we soond laek spaekin among wirsels, dan click on da map an listen ta folk at bides in different pairts a Shetland.

 

Da learnin section haes resources fur skule teachers an students o aa ages. Oral tradition haes yarns, sangs an sayins.

 

We hoop efter hunsin trow wir website, you'll want ta join wis in helpin keep Shaetlan alive.

 

Whitivver you pick, enjoy your Shetland experience.

 

To my eye and ear that passage is a total abortion. What is it? What is the intent? I'd say it does more to destroy Shetland than anything else.

 

That is Mary Blance Radio Shetland speak at its worst. ie. English with an occasional Shetland word thrown in to it. The grammar and phraseology is 100% standard English. Shetland operates on a whole different grammar and phraseology structure than English, a direct translation from Shetland as it is spoken in to English becomes an unintelligible string of mis-matched words, or at very best poor pidgin English. That piece can be translated word by word in to English and make perfect sense!

 

Is there any point in preserving and promoting the words of a language, which seems to be the main message the site puts across, without also doing the same with all aspects of that language? There's no point in knowing and using the words, unless you know the correct grammar and sentence structure for them.

[DePooperit]

Okay, so its only taken me nearly 9 months to get around to checking the site out properly....

 

Yes, the idea, and I daresay the intent/motivation is good, and I have no desire to detract from it....But, and its maybe just me, but this really irritates me. The following is a quote from the site front page....

 

If you want ta keen foo da dialect cam aboot or juist curious aboot wirds, dan geng ta John Graham’s dictionary; if you want a taestin o Shaetlan literature, dan you can wale trow poetry, prose an drama; if you want ta keen whit we soond laek spaekin among wirsels, dan click on da map an listen ta folk at bides in different pairts a Shetland.

 

Da learnin section haes resources fur skule teachers an students o aa ages. Oral tradition haes yarns, sangs an sayins.

 

We hoop efter hunsin trow wir website, you'll want ta join wis in helpin keep Shaetlan alive.

 

Whitivver you pick, enjoy your Shetland experience.

 

To my eye and ear that passage is a total abortion. What is it? What is the intent? I'd say it does more to destroy Shetland than anything else.

 

That is Mary Blance Radio Shetland speak at its worst. ie. English with an occasional Shetland word thrown in to it. The grammar and phraseology is 100% standard English. Shetland operates on a whole different grammar and phraseology structure than English, a direct translation from Shetland as it is spoken in to English becomes an unintelligible string of mis-matched words, or at very best poor pidgin English. That piece can be translated word by word in to English and make perfect sense!

 

Is there any point in preserving and promoting the words of a language, which seems to be the main message the site puts across, without also doing the same with all aspects of that language? There's no point in knowing and using the words, unless you know the correct grammar and sentence structure for them.

 

Not 100% - 'fock at bides' doesn't go into standard English without making the verb plural. Nor does 'wale trowe' - 'wale' means 'select' or 'choose' but to get that into standard English you would have to use something like 'search' which is not what 'wale' means.

 

I would say that the piece you quote sounds very natural - that is, although there aren't many examples of where the unnameable tongue differs from standard English in it, that's because it just happens to be written about a subject, and in a register, where they happen to mostly coincide. I've seen much 'worse' examples of 'dialect' being written with standard English forms.

[MuckleJoannie]

Hit's mebbe joost da Ness fornenst Nort Rõ

[shoormal]

Re da Dialect Map o' Shetland......

 

I fin it braaly disappointin dat da nearest thing day cood fin tae a Wastside accent is a wife dat moved ta Scallawa when she wis 15, geed ta university at 17, dan married sooth and only cam back ta Shetland fur holidays!

 

Whit a JOKE!!

[Siccar]

Reddir dan pleepsin here wy no contribute aa' yur obvious talent tae da website? Apologies fur da grammar. And usin english. Dats me pintled aa ta hell.

[Siccar]

Really one thinks said website would be better written entirely in the Traditional and quaint Old Norn. For all the best dialects and languages have no evolution.

[Ghostrider]

^^ Clearly Im no muckle evolved den, Im ey tocht dat onywye, a cave does me bettir is a cassil.

 

Is fur ony pleepsin, I juist pat yun heer ta see if onyeen sideit wi me, ur telld me I wis spaekin a lok o' traash.

 

Hit's mebbe joost da Ness fornenst Nort Rõ

 

Dat micht very weel be, für I widda ritten yun sumthin laek dis:

 

If you wid leak ta ken foo da Shaetlin dialect cam inta beein ur ir juist wantin ta ken aboot da wirds hit uises, dan geng you ta John Graham’s dictionary; if wid laek a taest o Shaetlin ritein, dan tak you a walein trow poetry, prose an drama; if you wid leak ta ken whit wye ony een o' wis soonds laek spaekin taen ta da tidder, den snick upoa da spaekers upoa da map ta heer folk fae aw wyes trow Shaetlin.

 

Da learnin peece haes a fouth o' gear aboot da Shaetlin dialect fur skule teachers, an onyeen o' ony age. Oral tradition haes yarns, sangs an sayins.

 

We wid laek ta tink dat eftir haein a teet trow wir website, you micht laek ta cum wi wis and gie wis a haund keepin Shaetlin gyaan.

 

Whitivver you tink o' im tho, we hoop you'll laek finnin oot mair aboot Shaetlin.

 

Yes, I appreciate the above pretty much follows standard english format, and does part of my original argument no good, but that's because the above was based on taking what they'd already written and translating in to Shaetlin as I speak it, rather than starting out with a blank canvas and writing down how I would convey the same message from scratch.

 

The following direct translation back in to English, I believe does prove the point of it being poor pidgin English though.

 

If you would like to know how the Shetland dialect came in to being or are just wanting to know about the words it uses, then go you to John Graham’s dictionary; if would like a taste of Shetland writing, then take you a sorting and choosing through poetry, prose an drama; if you would like to know what way any one of us sounds like speaking one to the other, then click upon the speakers upon the map to hear people from all ways through Shetland.

 

The learning piece has a great deal of material about the Shetand dialect for school teachers, and anyone of any age. Oral tradition has stories, songs an sayings.

 

We would like to think that after having a look through our website, you might like to come with us and give us a hand keeping Shetland going.

 

Whitever you think of him though, we hope you'll like finding out more about Shetland.

[Girzie]

Ghostriders interpretation is much more accurate.

[Evertype]

Is there any point in preserving and promoting the words of a language, which seems to be the main message the site puts across, without also doing the same with all aspects of that language? There's no point in knowing and using the words, unless you know the correct grammar and sentence structure for them.

All you can do in such a situation is write good prose in good grammar.

 

I've been doing that sort of thing with my publications for the Cornish Revival. There's one man who knows Cornish better than anyone alive, and he's working to produce translations into good Cornish which when read and enjoyed will be followed as models for good Cornish.