National Elections 2010 - Debate

[Spinner72]

Hopefully this will help keep the poll posted by Twerto tidy, and let those of us who feel the need to rant do so!

 

I have two concerns leading up to the election, firstly, that too many of the voters have either forgotten, or were too young, to remember the state things were in under the Tories before the last shift in power took place.

 

Secondly is the rise of the BNP/UKIP. I know some don't like the comparison but upon reading their manifestos I find it very difficult to seperate the two, indeed the UKIP are more extreme in some cases such as the niqab. (which they seem to feel so strongly about that they include it in their shortened manifesto!)

 

I completely understand support because of the proposals they have for withdrawl from the EU, however they are far from unique in those proposals with the SLP, UKF, BNP, and English Democrats all proposing the same or similar.

 

But of course these are just my opinions at the moment and thankfully many will disagree so, debate away

[khitajrah]

Secondly is the rise of the BNP/UKIP. I know some don't like the comparison but upon reading their manifestos I find it very difficult to seperate the two, indeed the UKIP are more extreme in some cases such as the niqab. (which they seem to feel so strongly about that they include it in their shortened manifesto!)

 

I agree with you. It's worrying that they appear to be gaining so many votes.

 

edit: I would have thought that folk would select a candidate/party which would benefit, overall, the people of the UK and not select one because they like one or two of their pledges that may benefit them directly and choose to ignore all the negative ones.

 

edited (again) for typos and grammar.

[Fjool]

I've linked to this thread from the original so that folks know where to come for the debate.

[Longdog]

For me it is always a case of which will do the least harm and so hopefully the most good. The best of a bad bunch.

 

I haven't read all the manifesto's, yet, but I do think that nationalism, patriotism and racism can be uncomfortably close bed fellows. I hope to god I'd never vote UKIP, SNP,BNP or anyother such group.

 

I do have big issues with the Euro gravy train, but think it's pretty inevitable in a global economy that short of an apocolypse isn't going to go away. I do feel the way this government has seemingly failed to fight our corner there is terrible and we need some one to kick some butt over there.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

From UKIP - WEBSITE

Key UKIP policies have been copied and inserted into the Liberal Democrat election manifesto.

 

 

 

UKIP introduced a provisional manifesto at the party’s spring conference in March and it appears the Liberal Democrats have taken a healthy interest in three of the straight talking ideas.

 

The Lib Dems say they would like to introduce a flat-tax and take the low paid out of tax altogether, a UKIP policy since 2006.

 

Nick Clegg’s party also says it wants to introduce elected County Health Boards – a policy the liberals have copied word for word.

 

The Lib Dems have followed UKIP on transport policy by adopting plans to re-open thousands of miles of railway lines and invest some £3 billion in the UK’s ageing railway system.

 

However, unlike UKIP, they say they will pay for the new infrastructure by robbing money from the road budget – not by making a £6.4 billion annual saving by leaving the EU.

 

David Campbell Bannerman, UKIP’s deputy leader and head of policy, said: “I am flattered that the Liberal Democrats are taking UKIP’s lead but we wonder why their own policy nest is so empty.

 

“UKIP’s policy package is overflowing with potential and it’s clear that only UKIP have the policies to put Britain back on the road to prosperity.â€

 

Shetland and Scotlands greatest renewable resource - its fishing grounds should be at the top of the priority table for our islands . I am sure Robert Smith will fully recognise this and would make more of a fight for proper control .

The liberals have been and will be totally ineffective .

All I see in UKIPS Policies are positives and without the spin .

I do not see any simillarities to the BNP .

[khitajrah]

^ Of course they are going to write positive things about themselves on their own website.

 

Have a look at this: BBC Election 2010

 

You can compare and contrast the different parties and their policies there. Have a look at what the UKIP and BNP say in regards to Immigration.

[Malachy]

All I see in UKIPS Policies are positives and without the spin .

I do not see any simillarities to the BNP .

 

There are plenty of similarities if you look at their policies on immigration, Europe, 'law and order' and defence. In fact there's virtually nothing to distinguish them. The BNP are just a bit more blunt about it, and use a lot more uncorroborated statistics (20% of the British population now non-indigenous apparently, whatever that means). There are plenty of BNP supporters who would say 'I'm not racist, but...', and you will hear that same phrase from UKIP too. They use the same over-simplifying techniques to support their views, and end up consumed by contradictions. Consider the first two pledges in their Defence manifesto:

 

-"Boost the military budget by 40% so our armed forces are properly equipped" and then "Demand one clear achievable mission for Afghanistan or seek a negotiated exit". What is that if not a way of trying to please everyone - let's make our army the best in the world, but let's not send our soldiers out to die in foreign lands.

 

To be fair, I'd say UKIP is mostly made up of old-style Tories, in the Norman Tebbit mould, rather than the more open bigotry of the BNP. Their views on crime, defence and immigration are very authoritarian and pretty frightening really. It's the hang 'em and flog 'em school of law - 3 strikes and you're out, life means life, scrap the human rights act, and all that guff.

 

Incidentally, I would have thought this little phrase in the UKIP manifesto would be at least a little troubling for any Shetlander: "End support for multiculturalism and promote one shared British culture for all". A shared British culture makes sense if you never leave the south of England, but not really from where I'm sitting.

 

The sad thing is that UKIP and the BNP are benefiting from a rejection of mainstream politics. They are making pledges that sound like they might be 'common sense', but are actually just a return to Thatcherite hostility and individualism. Why, I wonder, has the left not managed to create a movement to similarly benefit from the current crisis? Why is there no radical, thoughtful party emerging from the left instead of the right? The banking crisis in particular really ought to have seen a re-emergence of anti-capitalist feeling, but nothing happened. All of the parties (including UKIP and BNP) support more or less the capitalist status quo. In fact, I think the Greens are probably the only party on the radar that are looking at things slightly differently. But they will have to tone down that side of things in order to be taken seriously by the mainstream media. Hmm, rambled too long now.

[Longdog]

 

Why, I wonder, has the left not managed to create a movement to similarly benefit from the current crisis? Why is there no radical, thoughtful party emerging from the left instead of the right? The banking crisis in particular really ought to have seen a re-emergence of anti-capitalist feeling, but nothing happened. All of the parties (including UKIP and BNP) support more or less the capitalist status quo. In fact, I think the Greens are probably the only party on the radar that are looking at things slightly differently. But they will have to tone down that side of things in order to be taken seriously by the mainstream media. Hmm, rambled too long now.

 

No not rambled on too long at all.

 

The cynic in me just thinks that the majority of the UK population are now so 'Americanised' in so many ways that they just can't see that there is an alternative to the super media, fast food, consumer promoted way of life. As you say the Greens don't fit the comfortable view so would have to tone down or as some might say 'sell out' to really get any serious chance and what's the point of that.

[unlinkedstudent]

It will be interesting to see how the media portrays each party this time round.

 

I remember how the Tories were treated in the media years ago. They stated within their manifesto something along the lines of that they "would not put up taxes unless it was prudent to do so" but the media later portrayed it as "The tories promised never to put up taxes".

 

I also find it rather strange that when the Tories were in power, we were in a recession. Blimey, miracle or what but the following day, when Labour were elected, the UK was suddenly no longer in recession. Shows what a change in attitude can do - did we all feel a lot better, get ourselves jobs and did we ever come out of that recession?

 

Suddenly, under Blair, we no longer got reports each month regarding the number of people out of work, out went the weekly meetings where the press could ask the PM questions, out went PM's questions in the house (unless he had prior knowledge of what was going to be asked), in came the lies over the war, in came loads of spin, in came loads of hikes on National Insurance, last year the hike in Income Tax (10p in the £ for those on £10k or more went and if you were married, working and did NOT have kids, you got a 60% tax increase as a result), out went tax relief on student fees.

 

It seems the same old, same old - labour in and borrow like mad, tories in and pay it off, labour in again and run up even more debt but this time sell off our gold too - perhaps a hung parliament would be good!

 

I used to always buy each manifesto for each party in WH Smiths. I recall the Green Party stating that everyone would be paid the same salary - may as well vote Communist I thought then.

 

Whilst it was only something like £1 for each manifesto, I really don't see why a copy of the manifesto can't be delivered to each voter. We would then be in a far better position to know what each party proposed and would not rely on the media to such a degree. It could be funded for by cutting the amount of funding each party gets for their campaigns.

 

I always try to vote as I remember women dying years ago in prison so that we had the right to vote. Alas, it has become even more expensive for independents to stand as candidates so even if you would rather spoil your ballot paper, perhaps a vote for a candidate likely to loose their deposit would be the way to go, so as to try to go some way to counterbalance the fact that only the rich can now afford to stand.

[paulb]

i also remember the tories. our career advicer in 1982 trying to be possitive. funny that this recession does not hurt as much as that one did. maybe it may have something to do with who was running the country. labour are not perfect no one can say they are but at least you know they are trying under the thatcher the milk snatcher they just did not give a stuff.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/08/craig-murray-general-election

 

I am still yet to see any mention of any of the smaller parties on tv .

[groilick]

Politicians? Lib dem a!

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDwQEEAZhWM&feature=related

 

Gordon Brown - what a numpty !

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFFAcfkeOQ&feature=related

[Malachy]

Did anyone else spot the brilliant comment from the Orkney and Shetland UKIP candidate in the Shetland Times today? He was arguing that we shouldn't bother funding increased public transport. He said:

 

"The only excuse for using public transport if you're over 17 is extreme drunkenness".

 

If he starts coming with more hilarious comments like that he could make the campaign much more interesting. UKIP: the comedy party.