The North Boat (Northlink ferries)

[Muppet]

Now this is a question to ponder over the festive season. How many problems with Northlink sailings were due to Aberdeen Harbour rather than any problems with the ships or with Lerwick Harbour and what can we do about it.

 

You have pretty much summed up whats been in my mind for a long while there. I'm not aware that there have ever been problems with Lerwick harbour, it seems to be pretty much open and accesible whatever the weather.

 

The ships! Well, there's obviously a divided opinion here on that one, so for the sake of an easy life, i'll for the moment just say that they are no better no worse than we've had before.

 

That just leaves Aberdeen Harbour. there's really no doubt in my mind that northlinks ships being deeper and longer than P&O's, have more restrictions on entering and leaving the Harbour.

 

I'm fairly sure that Aberdeen Harbour publish their charges on t' internet and i really should have studied them before I post this, but i'm willing to bet that they make a tidy sum from Northlink. In fact if i was to be bold enough to the point of being brazen, I'd suggest that sending a dredger to the mouth of the harbour once or twice a year might not quite bring them to the brink of bankruptcy. Losing northlink's business however, might affect them enough that they would stand up and take notice.

 

I'm pretty sure that my previous posts here make it clear that i prefer aberdeen as a destination Port, but it sometimes seems to me that aberdeen are just taking the P**s. maybe the time has come to seriously consider going to a Port that will let the boats in whatever the weather!

[sheepshagger]

maybe the time has come to seriously consider going to a Port that will let the boats in whatever the weather!

 

Maybe some of the boys on boats can correct me but Bergen is rarely if ever closed

[Ghostrider]

^^ There's an element of chicken and egg afoot though, is Aberdeen Harbour at fault for not undertaking works to make harbour access better suited for the North Boats, whatever the prevailing weather conditions. Or, is Northlink at fault for obtaining vessels to use on the route, less well suited than their predecessors to access Aberdeen Harbour whatever the conditions.

 

Its not like this access problem has only come to light with Northlink, the boat lying off waiting on the tide, as has already been noted several times on this thread, was a known issue back in the P&O days too. The only difference being that with P&O's boats it was a relatively rare occurance, but with Northlink's its fast becoming a common one, as an already known problem is exacerbated by, apparently, Northlink's choice of vessel design.

[EM]

I'm not aware that there have ever been problems with Lerwick harbour, it seems to be pretty much open and accesible whatever the weather.

Quite apart from LPA's amusing adoption of the "Britain's Top Port" monicker, I have often come across historical references to Bressay Sound being "the best natural harbour in Europe."

[Lapse Rate]

This happened with the liner Voyager in the Med and the video from that incident is incredible.

 

This video is really good you can see the "stability" happening. As the deck edge is submered on the Starboard side the stabilit curve will come back onto the positive. No worries

 

If ever the Northlink boats can't get into Aberdeen Harbour because of a SE'ly swell, then can any other boats?

 

Because to be honest I dont think the problem is limited to these boats, the VTS has as much to do with the boats entering the harbour as anything else.

If the VTS deems lift in the harbour channel to be too high then it'll be a no go for anyone.

[Muppet]

The only difference being that with P&O's boats it was a relatively rare occurance, but with Northlink's its fast becoming a common one, as an already known problem is exacerbated by, apparently, Northlink's choice of vessel design.

 

I'm not convinced that you can lay that one at Northlink's feet. As time goe's on and the route gets busier, the ships are going to get bigger whoever runs them.

[Muppet]

goe's

 

I'm not convinced I spelt than one correctly, but it's much to late at night for me to even contemplate a correction

[Ghostrider]

^^ Fair point. Its a difficult one to lay blame for without knowing the full small print of the various relationships involved that make up the full package.

 

If the port and/or vessel specifications were specified and/or approved by the party issuing the contract, blame lies with the Scottish Government for specifying and/or accepting a contract that was going to be impossible on occasion for any contractor to supply.

 

If Aberdeen Harbour Board entered in to any formal legally binding agreement to supply access and berthing to the service, its would seem very likely they are bending the terms of the contract a good bit at present. However, if no formal agreement exists, and the North Boats are no different than any other vessel who's a paying customer, then its difficult to see how or why the Harbour Board should, or could be considered at fault. If they choose to do nothing, and run the risk of losing custom to other ports, then that surely is their business and decision alone.

 

If Northlink were given/have leeway in their choice of vessel and/or port, then that puts them more in the hotseat. They know the shortcomings of their current choices, and they could be being somewhat more proactive in seeking improvements, rather than putting about red herrings about the weather being worse these days.

[Guest willz320]

Ahem! It's the customers "cluttering up the bars". Probably because they couldn't get (or afford) a cabin.

 

Yes it is the customers, but I am sure there is a large portion of customers onboard who dont get ill at sea, and who would like to use the bar seating while having a drink. or two.

 

No, at the prices they charge for a cabin, they seem to believe they run the Ritz!

 

NorthLinks prices are still just as low as P&O, apart from in the exclusive cabins. But then, it is 10 years later - and inflation to think about.

 

My first trip with Northlink cost almost exactly double what I paid P&O the previous year. Both were for myself, a car and a cabin in the same month of the year.

 

I dont really know what the price differences are so I cant argue with that! But here are differences between P&O and today.

 

1998. Adult return fare £78.50

2008. Adult return fare £29.96

 

1998. Return Fare & Berth in a shared 4 £98.50

2008. Return Fare & Berth in a shared 4 £97.72

 

I'd say paid for by the taxpayer and passengers.

 

Fair Point!

 

Rant Over - btw this wasnt entirely directed towards Willz320! I just happened to take it out on him/her!

 

=]

[Pooks]

Shetland News has a letter appropriately entitled Interesting Reading.

 

It is a reply from the Chief Exec of Northlink to a letter that Vic Thomas sent.

 

I find it interesting because he starts the letter off by saying that it is not financially viable to provide couchettes on the Northlink Ferry. He then continues his letter to say that passenger numbers have grown by a massive 84%. Surely the extra 84% would have helped to pay for that couchettes. Or were they all sleeping on the floor???

 

With such an increase in passenger sales you would think that there was no need to terminate the positions in Shetland and relocate them to CalMac's finance department.

 

Something sounds fishy and it can't be the keel. Not with that fancy new teflon surface they have just had applied. Hmm, couldn't have been cheap.

[sassermaet]

I really do wonder how they can charge what they do - I agree with the point that they're convinced they 'run the Ritz'. At prices like that folk should be entitled to a free meal in the cafeteria and a free film. And free drinks.

 

It cost me almost £100 for a return fare for going home this Christmas. I'm a student, for {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'}'s sake. I also notice they did away with student fares and don't appear to have a concession one on the go either Do they think I'm made of money?!

[Guest willz320]

It cost me almost £100 for a return fare for going home this Christmas. I'm a student, for {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'}'s sake. I also notice they did away with student fares and don't appear to have a concession one on the go either Do they think I'm made of money?!

 

If you are an islander - there is significant discounts available. If you are a student there are discounts also available at any time of year.

 

Non-Islander Student/Disbaled/Senior = 10% on passenger and car

Islander = 30% on passenger and car

Islander Student/Disabled/Senior = 30% on passenger and car and then a further 25% on passenger, car and cabin

 

For an islander student, the return fare is under £25! So really, they dont think you are made of money AND THATS WHY YOU PAY LESS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!

 

If they halved the fares for everyone - where does that deficit come from? And what is going to pay for the running costs.

 

Its expensive, but no more expensive than any other set of islands, with a travelling distance of 230 miles - and with a high standard of service.

[sassermaet]

It cost me almost £100 for a return fare for going home this Christmas. I'm a student, for {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'}'s sake. I also notice they did away with student fares and don't appear to have a concession one on the go either Do they think I'm made of money?!

 

If you are an islander - there is significant discounts available. If you are a student there are discounts also available at any time of year.

 

Non-Islander Student/Disbaled/Senior = 10% on passenger and car

Islander = 30% on passenger and car

Islander Student/Disabled/Senior = 30% on passenger and car and then a further 25% on passenger, car and cabin

 

For an islander student, the return fare is under £25! So really, they dont think you are made of money AND THATS WHY YOU PAY LESS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!

 

FYI, I was using my islander discount, but when I booked online I was not offered the option of student discount like I have been previously - I was instead offered adult, child or infant fares. No concession came up.

 

And £25 would not be including a cabin. There's times I've sailed for about £60 return before, cabin included.

[Vik]

Greetings folks.

 

I havn't finished with Bill Davidson yet as his figures don't add up in relation to the % increase in passenger figures unless as you say there are loads more folk being moved on from various floor locations around the ship or just wandering about all night like zombies.

 

Anyway does anyone know exactly how many passenger cabins the last St Clair had? & can anyone work out the % increase the additional 20 odd cabins have on the equation.

[Infiltrator]

While we're harking on about the high cost of ferry fares - is there a real need for 2 ferries?

 

Would there be any support for a much cheaper fare structure if the service could be reduced somehow.

 

Certainly through the heart of winter, passenger levels are so low that the service must run at a huge loss.

Have the recent cancellations for stormy weather had any significant impact on the local economy? Plus, during catch up trips, they have managed quicker turnarounds and shorter passages.

 

I've always maintained that the largest untapped resouce on the islands is tourism - but the sheer cost of getting tourists to and from the isles will always keep folk away.

 

My last trip home with a car and cabin cost me close to £600 - ferry fares like this will do nothing to attract tourists - in fact it's even putting me off - I could have a long weekend in Amsterdam, Paris or even Barcelona for this price, hmmm....