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Save Shetland Coastguard


millie
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Hi, I know that filling out these questionnaires can be a really daunting thing. Personally I think that the government have done this on purpose. If you email shetland-cg-pcs@virginmedia.com someone will get back to you with answers to your questions.

 

Thank you for your support

 

:shock: lol that someone would be me then!

 

I don't have the answers yet however, I've asked a couple of union colleagues if they would have a look at the questions and come up with some answers everyone can use.

 

I tend to agree with Millie, the response questionairre has been made difficult on purpose.

 

We've got petitions out to the shops & garages etc around Lerwick & beyond now.

Posters and flyers are in progress too, along with some rather sexy designer T shirts all in support of the campaign.

 

There is more to come :)

 

Absolutely right. Not just difficult, but in fact more of a rubber stamping exercise and not consultation at all. Most, if not all of the questions make no attempt to "consult" on whether what is proposed actually has merit but instead merely ask "what else can you think of" or "what have we left out!" Not what I call consultation.

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I hope your Union has a better result than ours.

 

Good luck with the petition of which I will sign.

 

Is there a 10 Downing petition, if not get one too, if enough folk sign it it is or should be looked at and parties talked to.

 

You also can write to all the Lords and co who have an interest in maritime stuff.

 

Also raise the subject on as many forums as you can and get going with a Twitter hash.

 

Don't rely only on the Unions.

 

aye fair point, we're not only relying on the union

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...Tell me this if things are co-ordinated centrally from Aberdeen or the south of England when speaking to a very broad shetlander how will they be able to decipher what they are saying if that person is in a state of distress and panic this could make the difference between life and death. This is just one aspect which needs to be taken into consideration.

 

10 years I've been here as a soothmoother and I still get the ocasional "wtf did they say" moment :)

Bizzarely not so much caused by the Whalsay folk, but perhaps they dumb it right down for me!

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Just received today a reply from Alaistair Carmichael MP with a copy of a letter from Francis Maude MP outlining the plans to decimate the terms and conditions of the Coastguards and other Civil Servants they intend to make redundant in the near future by effectively getting rid of the civil service compensation scheme. The letter, dated 6th December, says that " subject to parliamentary approval, the superannuation bill should receive Royal Assent in December which will allow us to implement the terms of the new scheme immediately". Seems like a done deal.

 

I'm obviously not the only one this affects but as an example I signed up to my current terms and conditions in 1976 and have worked since then for the Government in the service of this country all over the world, in war zones, in civil disputes, undertaken humanitarian missions, worked in the search and rescue community for the past 20 years and am now one of a relatively small number of Qualified UK Search and Rescue Mission Co-ordinators. I stand to lose up to £90,000 if the changes being proposed are applied. Some thanks for a lifetime of service. Peanuts to Messrs Cameron and Clegg but everything to me and my family.

 

As I said, I'm not the only one this affects but wanted to give people some idea of the severity, unjustness and downright unfairness of these proposed changes. Earlier in the year the High Court stopped the Government from implementing these changes branding them, not only immoral but Illegal. The Government is planning to change the law to get around this. Lets hope the European Court of Human Rights gets fully involved. Paying Civil Servants what they are entitled to has got to be cheaper than the action that may ensue should this ridiculous bill be passed.

 

Anyway Guys and Gals....It's Christmas Eve so lets have a dram and forget about the trials and tribulations for a while and come back fighting in 2011. Best wishes to all and here's hoping that the CONDEMS will see some sense.... Nahhhh

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I am not being negative ,but realistic with the sure & certain knowledge that Lerwick Coastguard station can be emulated from elsewhere.

 

Of course the weak link is what happens if comms fail !

 

What happens if the hospital ,police or any other phone line goes down !

 

To be honest the phone lines are really very resilent,& very seldom down .

 

Urabug, Have a read of this!

 

 

Dear Mr Cameron,

 

I am writing to voice my absolute rejection of the recently published proposals to "modernise" the Coastguard system in the UK.

 

I write from the Shetland Islands as both a concerned citizen and as a Senior Engineer, with 22 years experience in the operation and maintenance of Broadcast and Public Safety Radio systems.

 

Over the years I've been involved in the operation and maintenance of Greater Manchester Police radio, Scottish Ambulance (both their "Nokia Actionet" system - as used on the mainland - and the bespoke system used here in Shetland). For the last 2 years I've also been involved in the maintenance of the MCA's communications system at Shetland Coastguard.

 

As you will understand therefore, I am not afraid of using technology to modernise and improve service but only where its use is warranted and will enhance safety.

 

From this perspective I am perhaps qualified to speak of the great dangers contained in your proposed new system.

 

Shetland is connected to the mainland of the UK by various microwave radio links, operated by BT.

 

The Coastguard Remote Radio Sites are connected to Shetland MRCC by BT Kilostream, and the actual BT network configuration is such that the data carried by these kilostreams actually travels the the mainland before returning to Shetland for termination at the Shetland MRCC.

 

The following is just one example of why it is dangerous to rely on telecommunications infrastructure to maintain a Safety of Life radio network.

 

Very recently a failure of a single BT microwave link radio site on a remote island in Orkney caused a total loss of connectivity to ALL the Remote Radio Sites. BT were unable even to provide any diagnosis of where the fault was located for many hours, and their estimated repair times were grossly optimistic.

 

Eventually, after almost 24 hours, BT were able to re-route the traffic for the Remote Radio Site kilostreams onto an unaffected second radio link.

 

Had a fault occurred on this second radio link route then Shetland would have been isolated completely from the Mainland.

 

Coastguard Volunteer Rescue teams were deployed to various strategic hill tops around Shetland's very large coastline to maintain a listening watch on VHF Channel 16. Had a distress call been heard they were able, via their VHF radios, to contact Shetland MRCC directly and, very importantly, without reliance on any 3rd party infrastructure.

 

Shetland MRCC itself also had at its disposal their MF (long range) radio system co-located at the Rescue Centre, as well as their on-site MF and VHF DSC systems - all vital parts of GMDSS.

 

This situation persisted for almost 24 hours, during which the whole of Shetland's vast area of sea and coastline were continuously guarded.

 

This emergency response was only possible because of the existence of a fully staffed Rescue Co-ordination Centre in Shetland which could maintain VHF radio communications with the volunteers that had been

deployed.

 

Under your proposals the same event occurring would have seen the connections to Shetland cut completely, leaving huge areas of sea, and a very long and intricate coastline and the largest oil-terminal in Europe, totally unguarded. Shetland is so remote from the mainland that direct communication via VHF radio is impossible.

 

There would have been no way for any distress call received by a local volunteer to have been passed to the co-ordination centre in Aberdeen.

 

Are you also proposing that in these circumstances the responsibility for coordinating a rescue would also fall solely on these volunteers?

 

This isn't a fanciful "worst case" scenario - these communication breakdowns between Shetland and the mainland are a frequent occurrence - perhaps not as prolonged as in this recent example - but you can be

sure they happen several times yearly.

 

Do you want to be responsible if lives are lost during such an event, as a result of your proposals?

 

It is almost inevitable that this will happen.

 

The available network capacity between Shetland and the mainland is severely limited, due to the fact that at present all the traffic (telephones, internet, private kilostreams etc etc) passes via BT's microwave radio links. These links are now probably fully utilized and there must be very little scope for extra traffic. Yet your proposals put greater and great reliance on "technology" and "networking".

 

BT also, it must be recognised, are a commercial company and are driven by their own pressures. This means they can't be relied upon to be able to respond swiftly to faults that might occur on isolated island sites which don't normally have engineering staff based there.

 

This is the modern world.

 

You must design your Coastguard system to be resilient to the failings of 3rd party contractors and infrastructure providers such as BT.

 

We need properly trained, experienced professional staff permanently available 24 hours a day.

 

What happens if for some reason (not an outlandish prospect) that all the volunteers are otherwise engaged and unable to respond?

 

Volunteers are a very useful resource to call up on when needed, but it is not acceptable to rely only on volunteer effort, yet this seems to be the thrust of your proposals.

 

To remove a 24 hour per day professional presence in such a remote and heavily used area of the UK's seas and then to rely on technology and volunteer effort to maintain the integrity of the radio watch is very dangerous and exhibits a terrible naivety.

 

The seas round Shetland are very busy, with oil-rigs and their supply boats and helicopter traffic, heavily used fishing grounds, pleasure craft and cruise ships as well as oil-tankers navigating the Fair Isle

channel.

 

Sullom Voe oil terminal is here too, which generates a large amount of shipping movement,

 

Remember the Braer disaster?

 

There are a large number of lives at risk in our seas and they deserve a properly resourced Coastguard to watch over them.

 

Please re-consider this foolhardy proposal before it's too late and lives are lost as a consequence.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

No, I, Mr Angry, did not write the letter but it does, i think show the error in you expectations of modern communications?

 

Merry Christmas to one and all :)

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Police, Fire and Ambulance all work with Control Rooms in Inverness, and there radio system seams to work up here no bother, and infact all over the Highlands.

 

What would be the difference with the Coastguard in Aberdeen... as far as communications go? :shock:

 

Very little I suspect... but I am willing to be corrected :?

 

Although the above is a question out of Interest, I am very very pro keeping the MRCC in Shetland, the staff do a brill job up here.

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BT/SIC patching into the fibre optic cable should help with the reliability of the comms, but even with that in place there is still no escuse for even thinking about closing the Knab station

 

You have a point BUT if a cable is dug up in Thurso or Inverness, bobs your uncle, Shetland Coastguard lose everything (as at the end of the day it is via a privare wire routed "south") but MRCC Shetland then it has local relays via CROs at strategic positions and MF!

Also cables can be "fouled" by vessels or fail?

 

Yip, keep Shetland Coastguard I say.

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Stevo

Police, Fire and Ambulance all work with Control Rooms in Inverness, and there (sic) radio system seams (sic) to work up here no bother, and infact (sic) all over the Highlands.

And pray tell me, If there is an emergency here in Shetland, what the {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'} use is it to have communication with someone in Inverness?

I once had occasion to phone NHS 24 and I got somebody in Inverness, I don't think she knew where Shetland was; let alone Aith, complete waste of time.

 

PS.

You need a bit of work on your grammar and spelling.

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Stevo

Police, Fire and Ambulance all work with Control Rooms in Inverness, and there (sic) radio system seams (sic) to work up here no bother, and infact (sic) all over the Highlands.

And pray tell me, If there is an emergency here in Shetland, what the {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'} use is it to have communication with someone in Inverness?

 

But does it actually matter who you speak to? The point I was trying to make was, if its good enough for them, and works, then why not the coastguard.

 

You are still going to pass the same information to the person as you would if you spoke to someone with a shetland accent.

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But does it actually matter who you speak to? The point I was trying to make was, if its good enough for them, and works, then why not the coastguard.

 

 

It matters that the person you are speaking to has some knowledge of the area. There have been the often heard stories about ambulances and fire engines being sent to Hamnavoe in Orkney when called to an incident in Burra.

 

Remember that while we are comparing emergency services here, that there are eight Fire Brigades, and eight control rooms, in Scotland and the Coastguard are proposing that Aberdeen will be the only 24 hour ststion in Scotland. Thats a lot of area to cover.

 

Read this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12063850 to find out how the governments plans to centralise Fire Brigade control rooms in Enland are going. I think they would do well to learn the lessons from that before jumping in and proposing the same for the Coastguard.

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Police, Fire and Ambulance all work with Control Rooms in Inverness, and there radio system seams to work up here no bother, and infact all over the Highlands.

 

What would be the difference with the Coastguard in Aberdeen... as far as communications go? :shock:

 

Very little I suspect... but I am willing to be corrected :?

 

Although the above is a question out of Interest, I am very very pro keeping the MRCC in Shetland, the staff do a brill job up here.

 

There are very probably people a lot more knowledgable than me on this subject, but this is my understanding.

 

I can't speak for the Ambulance as I don't know what they do, but the Fire Brigade own the biggest private radio network in Europe which I believe is shared by the Police.

 

It is basically a point to point system of hilltop transmitters (pretty much line of sight) which relay the transmissions from the control room around the area they cover. In the case of Shetland it comes up though caithness, orkney and Fair Isle to the Shetland mainland.

 

I'm not aware of anything similar in place with marine VHF radio or any plans to put one in place, but expensive as it would be, I'm sure it could be done.

 

It would still very vulnerable as one link going down puts the whole line beyond that out of use. And Shetland is at the very end of that line.

 

That is where the difference is with all the other services having personnel in Shetland who can deal with incidents here, but the Coastguard won't.

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