Save Shetland Coastguard

[kiech]

Why should anyone support Shetland Coastguard?

 

You worked normally when the rest of your Coastguard colleagues were striking for better pay. Which you would have benefitted from.

 

Secondly, why are you moaning about being closed, you voted LIB DEM and so you are getting what you voted for. Danny Alexander although not your MP is responsible for the cuts, and he's LIB DEM. The people of Moray should also stop moaning about RAF Lossiemouth for the same reason.

 

Thirdly, Shetland is the least busiest coastguard station in the UK. Don't try to deny that one.

 

Fourth, the loss of 15 jobs is hardly likely to bring the Shetland economy crashing down now is it?

 

So I ask again why should anyone support Shetland Coastguard station

[Mustaffa Donut]

I am reading the concerns for lifes being lost at sea by the closing of Shetland MRCC.

 

A few facts and figures for you guys

 

Since 01/01/2010 MRCC Shetland have had 871 incidents majority of these being routine stuff, only 168 of these are actually SAR operations. Of these 168 incidents it included persons in the water, machinery failure and requiring simple tow jobs etc.

 

This works out to an average of around 3 incidents per week. In a highly trained MOC in Aberdeen i am sure they will be able to cope with this dramatic increase in incidents.

 

As for local knowledge is concerned, with proper probing questions and equipment this could be overcome easily.

 

As for the Shetland accent not being easily understood, i personal speak with Spanish, Russian etc mariners on commercial vessels and although i am the first to admit it can be difficult to communicate with them i have never been in a situation where i was unable to communicate with them.

 

Lets be positive about the changes to the coastguard and stop mankin away all the time, by selling off and closing stations such as MRCC Shetland we will be able to provide a better and more efficent service to the mariner from remaining stations.

 

Further to my facts and figures, of the 168 sar incidents 65 of these were False Alerts Good Intent.

[ArabiaTerra]

Why should anyone support Shetland Coastguard?

 

Because when they are needed, and aren't there, people die.

[Widworx]

Quote from above:

Loss of 228 staff and 10 stations needed to improve efficiency and save around £80m, says chief executive Admiral Sir Alan Massey

 

MORE than one in three coastguard jobs around the UK coast will be scrapped as part of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency’s drive to save around £80m ($124.9m) over the next four years, recently-appointed chief executive Admiral Sir Alan Massey has revealed to Lloyd’s List.

 

Now then, I think I have the answer. cut out £80m worth of goverment costs, perks and expenses and leave our lifeline services alone.

 

We would not notice any difference if several of those high paid ministers were not there but would be a lot worse off without our local Coastguard service.

 

On second thoughts we would notice the difference with a loss of ministers. There would be less to sit in offices, dreaming up rediculous ideas like this.!

[Graeme_Storey]

Why should anyone support Shetland Coastguard?

Not trying to put you down, kiech, but if you had seen the sort of personal dedication, the huge benefit of on-the-spot local knowledge and the successful way a local emergency at sea is dealt with (and I have seen it many times as a press observer) then you would not even be asking the question.

 

Local knowledge, understanding of nuances of tides, currents, weather patterns and suchlike can NOT be learned over a radio or phone in the middle of an incident.

 

Shetland Coastguard cover a truly vast area, and have built up an enormous wealth of knowledge which it is simply not possible to move to a different location.

[Quarffie]

Why should anyone support Shetland Coastguard?

 

You worked normally when the rest of your Coastguard colleagues were striking for better pay. Which you would have benefitted from.

 

No we didn't work normally we worked to rule without going all out on strike. We did this for several reasons (1) if we leave the building the BEST cover our flank can provide is by operating 2 aerials - with absolutly no local knowledge, and our conciences will not allow us to do this - fundamentally the same reason we are opposed to the cuts. I presume from your comments you walked out at your station and left the public to the dubious abilities of unqualified managers and admin staff trying to do what they could

 

Secondly, why are you moaning about being closed, you voted LIB DEM and so you are getting what you voted for. Danny Alexander although not your MP is responsible for the cuts, and he's LIB DEM. The people of Moray should also stop moaning about RAF Lossiemouth for the same reason.

 

No I didn't vote LIB DEM. You don't even know me.

 

 

Thirdly, Shetland is the least busiest coastguard station in the UK. Don't try to deny that one.

 

and your point is? ONE life saved is all thats required. In addition we have had some of the biggest incidents around the UK, Green lily, Braer, Fr8 Venture, Bourbon Dolphin. Not smash and grab 30 minute jobs liks some other stations.

 

Fourth, the loss of 15 jobs is hardly likely to bring the Shetland economy crashing down now is it?

 

Incorrect, not 15. If you're going to criticise get your facts right.

[Quarffie]

I am reading the concerns for lifes being lost at sea by the closing of Shetland MRCC.

 

A few facts and figures for you guys

 

Since 01/01/2010 MRCC Shetland have had 871 incidents majority of these being routine stuff, only 168 of these are actually SAR operations. Of these 168 incidents it included persons in the water, machinery failure and requiring simple tow jobs etc.

 

This works out to an average of around 3 incidents per week. In a highly trained MOC in Aberdeen i am sure they will be able to cope with this dramatic increase in incidents.

 

As for local knowledge is concerned, with proper probing questions and equipment this could be overcome easily.

 

As for the Shetland accent not being easily understood, i personal speak with Spanish, Russian etc mariners on commercial vessels and although i am the first to admit it can be difficult to communicate with them i have never been in a situation where i was unable to communicate with them.

 

Lets be positive about the changes to the coastguard and stop mankin away all the time, by selling off and closing stations such as MRCC Shetland we will be able to provide a better and more efficent service to the mariner from remaining stations.

 

Further to my facts and figures, of the 168 sar incidents 65 of these were False Alerts Good Intent.

 

You've probably heard the quote from Mark Twain about the three kinds of lies. You know ... "lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

Statistics prove nothing

 

Further to my facts and figures, of the 168 sar incidents 65 of these were False Alerts Good Intent.

 

One of the most misleading "facts" I've ever seen. Every incident is approached from a viewpoint that it is genuine and somebody is in difficulties; therefore the same response is made to every incident. It is quite often not until the search units are on scene and search plans made that an incident can be proven to be a false alert.

 

In a nutshell, every incident involves a lot of intensive work until people are rescued, or as you say it is found to be a false alert. Your misleading "fact" would suggest that incidents are obviously false alerts from the outset so we don't try as hard: not true

[Northerly]

I am reading the concerns for lifes being lost at sea by the closing of Shetland MRCC.

 

A few facts and figures for you guys

 

Since 01/01/2010 MRCC Shetland have had 871 incidents majority of these being routine stuff, only 168 of these are actually SAR operations. Of these 168 incidents it included persons in the water, machinery failure and requiring simple tow jobs etc.

 

Oh I see, so because they aren't the sort of spectacular 20 minute jobs that happen down on the south coast, e.g. small child on the inflatable crocodile, weekend sailor who doesn't know how to operate his radio etc they don't count eh? That said of course we do get a few 'proper' jobs up here, Braer, Green Lily, Bourbon Dolphin etc, stuff that so-called "busy" stations don't get.

 

This works out to an average of around 3 incidents per week. In a highly trained MOC in Aberdeen i am sure they will be able to cope with this dramatic increase in incidents.

 

All of which pre-supposes the communications between Shetland and the mainland actually work and you can actually hear people calling for help. Even if you missed 1 it would be 1 too many.

 

As for local knowledge is concerned, with proper probing questions and equipment this could be overcome easily.

 

Funny, the last time this was looked at in 1998 by the Select Committee on the Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs during the last round of station closures, they took a somewhat different view. They said: "We are convinced that local knowledge, whilst clearly not the only source of information for Coastguards, is a fundamental tool in Watch Officers' armouries. We believe that it helps Officers to respond quickly and appropriately to incidents, and therefore saves lives. We are concerned that the closure programme, by requiring Watch Officers to cover more lengthy stretches of coastline, threatens to dilute local knowledge to such an extent that its value will be reduced, with a potentially very serious impact on the performance of the Coastguard service." Even the politicians don't believe what you're shovelling!

 

 

As for the Shetland accent not being easily understood, i personal speak with Spanish, Russian etc mariners on commercial vessels and although i am the first to admit it can be difficult to communicate with them i have never been in a situation where i was unable to communicate with them.

 

All of which only goes to highlight the sort of ignorance of the Shetland dialect that exists on the mainland, twas ever thus. Just you keep making statements like that. Way to endear yourself to the populace!

 

Lets be positive about the changes to the coastguard and stop mankin away all the time, by selling off and closing stations such as MRCC Shetland we will be able to provide a better and more efficent service to the mariner from remaining stations.

 

What a joke. Anyone who has read the so-called consultation document can see that it is frankly a poorly written tissue of half-truths, misleading statements, pie-in-the-sky rhetoric and "buzz phrases" backed up with absolutely zero data and evidence thats fooling nobody. Almost word-for-word the same as the FiReControl project that was so recently trashed at the cost of £423million to the taxpayer!

 

Further to my facts and figures, of the 168 sar incidents 65 of these were False Alerts Good Intent.

 

And how many of a mega-busy station like Aberdeen for example were "Rig at muster" which never came to anything and all Aberdeen did was fire up an incident and then close it again without having taken any SAR action whatsoever? Your point is?

[Quarffie]

perhaps a Shetlander would do me the favour of a post in dialect and invite Kiech and donut to interpret?

 

If they get less than 100%... well

 

lol

[kiech]

Why should anyone support Shetland Coastguard?

Not trying to put you down, kiech, but if you had seen the sort of personal dedication, the huge benefit of on-the-spot local knowledge and the successful way a local emergency at sea is dealt with (and I have seen it many times as a press observer) then you would not even be asking the question.

 

Local knowledge, understanding of nuances of tides, currents, weather patterns and suchlike can NOT be learned over a radio or phone in the middle of an incident.

 

Shetland Coastguard cover a truly vast area, and have built up an enormous wealth of knowledge which it is simply not possible to move to a different location.

 

Is not other coastguards at other stations not equally dedicated. Do they not have on-the-spot-local knowledge.

Can all these nuances be learned over the radio or phone at other coastguard stations?

Doesn't othere stations not also have the same worries about transferring the wealth of local knowledge to a different location.

 

It seems arogant of you to suggest otherwise.

 

And by the way other station took action, Rather than do nothing and expecting all the benefits that the sucrifices of others might have won.

[Graeme_Storey]

er.... kiech... I was commenting on your remarks concerning the Shetland Coastguard Station, based on actual experience I have, over many years of some of the most serious incidents in Shetland's history. I covered such incidents as Braer, Pionersk, Borodynskye Polya, Lunakhods, Green Lily, many fishing boats, etc...

 

I was not comparing Shetland to anywhere else (because no station compares directly to any other - EVERYWHERE has local knowledge that is NOT easily explainable to others), just pointing out the terrible loss it would be to close Shetland.

 

BTW, I am against ANY sort of closure of ANY UK Coastguard Station.

[Northerly]

Why should anyone support Shetland Coastguard?

 

You worked normally when the rest of your Coastguard colleagues were striking for better pay. Which you would have benefitted from.

 

As Quarffie rightly points out we had good reason to stay at post because of the peculiar communications difficulties that relate to Shetland and because unlike you, we had absolutely no confidence in the ability of managers and admin staff to provide the required level of SAR cover in our District. Furthermore, lets examine exactly where strike action has got us shall we? Strike action has done nothing for our pay claim, we are still being paid as appallingly badly as we ever were with no sign of a resolution to that in the near future. Furthermore it has been made abundantly clear by management that all strike action has done has hastened the arrival of the current closure proposals. It has achieved zero benefit for ordinary Coastguards.

 

Secondly, why are you moaning about being closed, you voted LIB DEM and so you are getting what you voted for. Danny Alexander although not your MP is responsible for the cuts, and he's LIB DEM. The people of Moray should also stop moaning about RAF Lossiemouth for the same reason.

 

a. I didn't vote Lib Dem, never have and b.meaningless, vacuous point

 

Thirdly, Shetland is the least busiest coastguard station in the UK. Don't try to deny that one.

 

Even if it were true, and I dispute that, so what? To make such a point completely ignores the entire raison d'etre of HM Coastguard, or any other reactive emergency service for that matter. We are here "in case" something happens, because you never know. Thats how emergency services work. Furthermore, Im sure up and down the country there are, at this very moment, firemen and ambulance crews sitting around doing nothing because nothing is currently happening but I don't see any demands that they either get off their a**e and find something to do or that we should slash the number of fire stations or ambulance stations!

 

Fourth, the loss of 15 jobs is hardly likely to bring the Shetland economy crashing down now is it?

 

Wrong! Please get your facts correct.

[Quarffie]

Kiech

 

The staff of Shetland Coastguard have agreed to remain professional both now and during the strikes and work to rule in the past. As part of this we have not criticised any other station or individual for what they are doing now, or did during the aforementioned strike/work to rule. In light of the MCA proposal we have agreed with Stornoway in particular to not get into the "my stations better than yours" playground arguement, every station is important and the staff will obviously feel they have a special case to remain.

 

Alot of people know who I am, although I'm not divulging my real name (it is my right and privilege not to do so) however, it is blatently obvious I am one of the staff at Shetland.

Therefore, to make it fair, I invite you to tell everybody where you are stationed, if you are indeed a member of the MCA, and give people a chance to address your stations statistics. (and establish some credibilty for yourself)

It's only fair after all.

[Quarffie]

And how many of a mega-busy station like Aberdeen for example were "Rig at muster" which never came to anything and all Aberdeen did was fire up an incident and then close it again without having taken any SAR action whatsoever? Your point is?

 

the granite city aren't busy mate, you want to hear Solent during the round the island race

[Northerly]

And how many of a mega-busy station like Aberdeen for example were "Rig at muster" which never came to anything and all Aberdeen did was fire up an incident and then close it again without having taken any SAR action whatsoever? Your point is?

 

the granite city aren't busy mate, you want to hear Solent during the round the island race

 

I was being ironic lol

 

In any case, Donuts argument using operational data is entirely moot and bogus since the consultation document states "there are no operational reasons why one site is preferred over another" so by their own logic, the statistics are utterly irrelevant. Its just been another frankly pathetic attempt to justify the unjustifiable using a load of smoke and mirrors!