Save Shetland Coastguard

[shetlandpeat]

There may be more folk stayin home for summer this year due to the lack of confidence in spending.

So, there could be a greater need.

This country is being pulled and tugged about by a regime that seems not to care and is so happy that it has managed to pass the buck to other authorities.

[Northerly]

Yes I am calling for the MCA to be brought back to the table to create new and real propoals, but I am sorry to say that even I realise that change is necessary and we can no longer maintain a 19 station system.

 

You may have a point on that score, but the pace and scope of the change is much too rapid and severe in one dose. It leaves no wiggle room to make sure the proposals actually work (if at all - see the FiReControl debacle and others) and the timetable is wildly optimistic. All major change projects like this inevitably suffer from delays and this will be no exception, trouble is we could find ourselves in a position where the changes have been partly implemented and then the project is delayed or cancelled and large areas are left without cover. The other problem is that the savings to be made from the proposals are not huge, £5million per annum. What this means is that even slight delays or cost overruns will very quickly mean the whole projects spirals wildly off timescale and budget and yet another public sector project will very quickly go down the pan at enormous cost to the taxpayer.

 

For Scotland along we should reduce to 2 mainland MRCC's one in the central belt on in Inverness area.

 

Not going to happen - too expensive.

 

The excuse of 'communications problems' doesnt cut anymore, you might not like it but that is life.

 

OK so the fact that in 2010 there were 17 occasions on which the kilostream connection with the mainland was cut and that on three of those occasions the link was cut for more than 24 hours (in fact one on 2nd Nov lasted for 44 hours) doesn't matter then? Despite the fact that information received just yesterday under an FOI request states that the MCA will continue to use the existing BT connection (they have no choice) which they believe to be "reliable, resilient and secure" lol!

 

Do you really want to go down the Statistics road, Shetlands increase of 12 pct of the national or of Shetlands own stats? You might believe you will get it changed, Im looking at it with rationale, what is going to happen in Scotland is Forth, Clyde and yourself will close. Aberdeen the MOC and Stornoway the day station. Stornoway because the western seaboard needs covering and Aberdeen cant handle it.

 

Merely quoting the MCAs own stats back at them and undermining the rationale for their half-baked proposals. Even on their own figures, the proposals as they stand are a complete nonsense and should be completely re-thought. The proposals do not stand up to any basic level of scrutiny.

[overhere]

can someone explain to me, bearing in mind I am a simpleton!

 

For all these hours that the equipoment fails.

 

As an example. If all the kit failed for 12 hours.

What difference does it make if the good folks in Shetland CG are there or not? (dont fly down my throat - bear with me)

 

If the equipment fails it fails. I was under the impression that when it does so, the volunteers are called out to go to the aerial sites?

 

So, in those circumstances, the staff at Shetland would be as dead in the water as the staff at a MOC would be. correct?

 

So playing devils advocate, surely it makes no difference if the staff at Shetland are there or not?

 

DONT attack me, I am asking an honest question, not suggesting that Shetland should close.

[skippy]

As an example. If all the kit failed for 12 hours.

What difference does it make if the good folks in Shetland CG are there or not? .........If the equipment fails it fails. I was under the impression that when it does so, the volunteers are called out to go to the aerial sites?

 

So, in those circumstances, the staff at Shetland would be as dead in the water as the staff at a MOC would be. correct?.

 

Incorrect AFAIK Not dead in the water. Shetland MRCC has its own hard wired antenna which will cover the area within 45 miles of Lerwick and with this antenna it can also communicate effectivly with its volunteers sitting at the antenna sites ....Aberdeen could not as it is simply too far away.

[Graeme_Storey]

I think there is also a local, well-organised, amateur radio network to assist in such an emergency? Base stations and hand-held radios can then help co-ordinate any rescue response - a very local solution of course, but one that is a stand-by.

 

I seem to remember them helping a lot during the 1995 snow emergency??

 

Maybe someone can help with my memory on this.

 

Again, this can ONLY be effective with on-the-ground local knowledge.

[overhere]

QUOTE "Incorrect AFAIK Not dead in the water. Shetland MRCC has its own hard wired antenna which will cover the area within 45 miles of Lerwick and with this antenna it can also communicate effectivly with its volunteers sitting at the antenna sites ....Aberdeen could not as it is simply too far away" QUOTE

 

But this would not allow them to communicate with anyone on Orkney.

However the Aerials in the North coast of Scotland would be able to.

 

Therefore if they were still in Shetland they could only communicate with 50% of the district using their own antenna

 

If they were at the MOC they could only communicate with 50% of the district using their own antenna

[JustMe]

overhere wrote

But this would not allow them to communicate with anyone on Orkney.

However the Aerials in the North coast of Scotland would be able to.

 

Therefore if they were still in Shetland they could only communicate with 50% of the district using their own antenna

 

If they were at the MOC they could only communicate with 50% of the district using their own antenna

At a guess via the coastguard volunteers on Fair Isle.

[overhere]

overhere wrote

But this would not allow them to communicate with anyone on Orkney.

However the Aerials in the North coast of Scotland would be able to.

 

Therefore if they were still in Shetland they could only communicate with 50% of the district using their own antenna

 

If they were at the MOC they could only communicate with 50% of the district using their own antenna

At a guess via the coastguard volunteers on Fair Isle.

 

So the same way staff at a MOC would then?

 

Like I said, I am against this move, just trying to pick holes in arguments so we know which ones are watertight and which ones are not.

Will make your case stronger in the long run (I hope)

 

The argument about equipment failure needing staff at Shetland does not stand up to scrutiny.

I wish it did.

Back to the drawing board.

[skippy]

The argument about equipment failure needing staff at Shetland does not stand up to scrutiny.

I wish it did.

Back to the drawing board.

 

We differ in our understanding of the situation then....IMO the lack of resiliance in the communications is a very strong reason to question the proposals and many people, more knowledgeble than me, agree.

For instance how are you going to alert the local volunteers (on whose shoulders much of this will fall) if the microwave link is down. the pagers use channel 0 VHF I believe and the broadband and phone links would be in the same boat as the remote antennas. Also a game of "chinese whispers" relaying information up and down a chain of volunteer stations from Orkney South to Orkney North to Fair isle to Sumburgh and finally to whereever a SAR op is taking place is a recipe for disaster ...I think the simplistic view of the problem as peddled in the HMCG HQ does not , as you say , stand up to scrutiny

[overhere]

Surely you can move away from CH0 pagers?

I would be interested to know (probably wont be privvy to such information) how many times the antennas AND all the phone lines have been down at the same time.

 

Surely mobile phones and satellite phones could/would/should be used?

 

My point again is that if Shetland can only use their antenna up to 45 miles from the station then they would be in the same boat ref Orkney?

 

Reading the consultation paper it also gives more power to the Sector Managers during incidents.

If such a situation occured (everything down) surely they would be called out and would beable to run SAR locally?

 

Remember - I am just asking!

[skippy]

Surely you can move away from CH0 pagers?

I would be interested to know (probably wont be privvy to such information) how many times the antennas AND all the phone lines have been down at the same time.

 

Surely mobile phones and satellite phones could/would/should be used?

 

My point again is that if Shetland can only use their antenna up to 45 miles from the station then they would be in the same boat ref Orkney?

 

Reading the consultation paper it also gives more power to the Sector Managers during incidents.

If such a situation occured (everything down) surely they would be called out and would beable to run SAR locally?

 

Remember - I am just asking!

 

 

Could...should ...can...surely....

 

I see what you are saying but you need to read the document and the follow up statements....none of these things are planned...not even proposed...they are going to rely on the existing system, as it is, no changes.

the sector managers do an excelent job but would have no local access to SARSIS or anything else that the CG normally use ....again their are no significant improvements to their facilities proposed.

 

Perhaps one of the Shetland CG officers would be better placed to respond to your questions ...but thats my understanding of it.

[Egbert-Mcwhirter]

The Scottish Parliament will be debating the proposals next week.

Check out the link below.

 

http://www.stornowaygazette.co.uk/news/local-headlines/scottish_parliamentary_debate_secured_over_coastguards_1_480672

[NorthStar]

A meeting has also been arrange with the Scottish Goverment minister for Transport who are very much aware of the problem and are looking in how they can give any assistance.

 

I have also contact the MEP Fisheries Minister to appraise him of the situation, however he has responded with the official line after talking with the relevant MCA management. I have since appraised him of the situation and advised him to contact the PCS Union SEC reps for further proof/guidance.

 

I would ask any Fisherman on here to contact their fishing federations over these proposals.

[jaydee67]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-12290251

[ShetlandYouthVoice]

Great News! Shetland's Member of the Scottish Youth Parliament Nicole Mouat put forward a members motion to be discussed at the March sitting stating that there 'should be no closures to Scottish coastguard bases'. We have received confirmation that it will be debated and voted on by the membership. Lets hope that if it receives enough support, it will become Scottish Youth Parliament policy.