New Road Signs

[Ghostrider]

Unrelated to any of the above and simply for my own curiosity, does the prefix "Duri" or "Durrie" on a placename suggest anything in particular in ON?

It can refer to ON "dura" (doors', of the doors), which is rather rare in placenames though. The final 'a' and 'i' are often interchangeable in Norn. I don't know whether you still use the word 'durasuk/dorosuk', it means a draught of air between doors or through a narrow passage, its has the same part.

 

There's another word, more obscure, dorifetels/dorrifetels (lazy lounging or huddling up; indisposition and fretfulness), where 'dorri' is believed to be connected to Norw. durra (disorderly pile; entangled mass).

 

Do these words give you any new ideas?

 

Not particularly, I'm afraid. One example refers to a marshy area/spring in the hill, and the burn that drains from it. The modern pronounciation being "Durriesmee". One camp of thought is that the "mee" suffix is a bastardised evolution of "mire". I'm dubious of that explanation, as it would be perhaps the sole example where local pronounciation has completely dropped an "r" from a word. As mentioned previously, "r" and "k" are both pronounced so hard locally that they are almost certain to remain as long as the word does. Other local names containing "mire" are plentiful, but all retain their "r", and in one or two examples have actually had it extended in the "mirr" suffix pronounciation of some.

 

There's really very little distinctive about the location, its just one more spring on a sloping hillside, with a drainage burn, or which there are numerous similar ones. The only reason to note it unless you are actually right beside it is that the drainage burn over the centuries has created a noticable erosion scar on the hillside, which can be seen for some distance.

 

The other example is a croft name, which while within sight of the other example, has no known direct link with it. The croft is pretty much average for the locality, and doesn't really have anything in particular to set it apart from its neighbours. It is on the marshy side in general, but not to an extent that would be noted as exceptional, and probably no more so than at least one of its neighbours.

 

The only similiarity I can see, and it is very tentative, between the two, is that on aerial photographs of the croft, you can see what would appear to be the erosion scar and the natural route of a drainage burn from a marshy area/spring that is on higher ground around 300 yards or so beyond the croft. If it is indeed the eroded natural drainage channel, it has not been in use for a very long time, and any knowledge that that is what it was seems to have been lost in the mists of time (the spring still produces water and drains in that direction via other routes, but through what are for the most part if not all man-made ditches). As such, the scar is not really obvious on the ground any longer unless you know its there and make a point of looking for it, otherwise having fully grassed over a very long time ago, it now just looks like a natural dip in the ground. A few centuries ago though, I don't doubt the eroded channel that passes in to the croft was probably as visible from as great a distance as the one on the hill still is.

 

Assuming for a moment that the prefix "Durrie" actually refers to these channels, and then assuming a step further, which is really clutching at straws. If we take your ON "dura" meaning "of the doors" and apply that train of thought to both sites, there might be a possible meaning.

 

Both sites are seasonal and weather related insofar as their output of water, during summer both are dry, and only able to be note due to the scarring left from previous evacuation. For most of the winter they produce little more than a trickle, but have an extended period of heavy rain when the ground is already sodden, or a thaw of a significant amount of lying snow quickly, and probably accompanied by rain, and the output produced is such that it can be seen foaming white from some distance.

 

Still clutching at straws here. Could it maybe be possible that both names are connected to these visible scar drainage channels being seen as "doors", that while for most of the year were dry or contained minimal water, and therefor their full purpose and value weren't at first obvious, they actually were valuable assets when certain conditions made them necessary.

[deardron]

Ghostrider, not an easy one. What about pigs? Scots dialects have the following word:

 

DOORIE, n.1 A pig; the smallest pig of a litter. Also as int., a call to a pig. Also durrie (Arg.1 1931), dyorrie, dhuorrie (Uls. 1924 North. Whig (5 Jan.)). Sometimes attrib. [ˈdu:ri, ˈdj(u)ɔrɪ̜]

[Gael. durradh, a pig, sow; also used as a call to a pig; durrag, a little pig.]

 

As for -mee (or smee?), Scots online dictionary says nothing. Norn has the word "smi", earlier "smidja" (smithy) "noted down only as a sea-term, used by fishermen for an old, dilapidated smithy in Westing, Unst, which serves (served) as one of the two landmarks by which to find a fishing-ground; occas. as a placename de Smidjas, de Smis - cultivated patches.

 

Hardly was it Pig Smithy though

 

P.S. Can Durrie refer to a personal name?

[hairyian]

Thanks for the entertainment and education in this thread.

 

How about a starting a branch of this organisation ?

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/society/about.shtml

[Medziotojas]

I ken you mods work your behinds off; joost a peerie suggestion

[Ghostrider]

Ghostrider, not an easy one. What about pigs? Scots dialects have the following word:

 

DOORIE, n.1 A pig; the smallest pig of a litter. Also as int., a call to a pig. Also durrie (Arg.1 1931), dyorrie, dhuorrie (Uls. 1924 North. Whig (5 Jan.)). Sometimes attrib. [ˈdu:ri, ˈdj(u)ɔrɪ̜]

[Gael. durradh, a pig, sow; also used as a call to a pig; durrag, a little pig.]

 

As for -mee (or smee?), Scots online dictionary says nothing. Norn has the word "smi", earlier "smidja" (smithy) "noted down only as a sea-term, used by fishermen for an old, dilapidated smithy in Westing, Unst, which serves (served) as one of the two landmarks by which to find a fishing-ground; occas. as a placename de Smidjas, de Smis - cultivated patches.

 

Hardly was it Pig Smithy though

 

P.S. Can Durrie refer to a personal name?

 

Nothing too promising I'm afraid. While either location may have raised pigs at some time or another, any knowledge that that might have been the case if it was, has long since been lost, and there's nothing in particular at either location to suggest they'd have been any better for the pupose than anywhere else.

 

The "de Smis - cultivated patches" usage is interesting though. The location of Durriesmee in the hill coincides with the most extreme points at which outsets were attempted to be established, and as such there were small cultivated patches nearby by for a short period, but any connection to those would require the area having been named probably sometime during the 19th C. most likely the earlier part, which would seen unlikely for a geographical feature clearly visible for some considerable range. These short lived outsets also had individual names by which they are still known, which would tend to suggest a communal name was unlikely as well.

 

I have never come across any personal name anything like or similar to Durrie, however many old names have long since been lost, especially if they died out before or shortly after meaningful records started being kept around 1700.

 

Places named after people were very common, and surprisingly the names have endured an amazingly long time in some places. For example I am familiar with locations known as "Roolie's dellins" and 'Moad's Gaet", by which names they are still commonly referred to in some circles, However who Moad was that had a path named after him/her had already become unknown to people born within sight of it over a century ago. Likewise it can only be supposed the "Roolie's" probably refers to some unknown individual with the surname "Rools" who lived no later than the 17th C. of which there are mentions of one or two people of that surname in elsewhere in neighbouring districts in the earliest of records. There may well have been a now long forgotten name connected to these "durrie" loactions too.

 

The only other placename I can think of that, allowing for possible localised variations in pronounciation, might shed any light on a meaning is Dury, in Nesting. I don't think I've ever heard a meaning and origin given for it though, and in any case, there's no obvious similarity with the two "durrie" locations.

[deardron]

Well, OK, speaking of names, there's an obscure old Norse name Dýri (it's still in use in Iceland, although there's only some 4-5 people who have it). There's a fjord in North-West Iceland called Dýrafjörður = Dýri's firth, that's the same name. It's not given though that Dýri could double its -r- developing into Durrie, but phonetically this is still possible.

 

Another hypothesis, in Norn there was a bird name dirridu 'stormy petrel' < dyrriduv < ON doðr(a)-dúfa (where dúfa means 'dove'). ON doðra could have variations dyrri/durri in Norn.

 

So it might be Dýri's Patch or Petrel Patch. Not very convincing, but probably the utmost we can get out of the Old Norse material. If no, I would suggest this is something Celtic (or what else could it be?).