Jonathan Wills Nazi salute?

[shetlandpeat]

I am not sure how much SIC pay their consultants. I know how much my friend gets and to be honest, you can get a single room in a B&B for 25 pounds a night. You may need to include the cost of running the house as well as the original cost, the insurance and the bills.

It is not as simplistic as you may want it to be.

 

In some instances, my friend may stay in other employee house.

 

I think your working out is a little off the mark, 125 a night? EACH!!!

What you are saying is that the council should pay its self 125 a night per consultant to stay in Shetland.

 

You can rent a holiday home for less than 125 per night.

 

Of course the house will return a +ve asset if you price it that highly.

 

No where did I say the house was a gift, you just made that up.

 

Explain why, you would be happy with a consultant getting their fee and a 125 a night property on top.

 

I get the feeling you just hate JW. So what ever he does, you will condemn.

 

The consultants should pay for their own accommodation, why promote the gravy train?

[angelpie]

 

I think your working out is a little off the mark, 125 a night? EACH!!!

 

?

 

I went to Booking.com, took a average of the lerwick hotels and added 25 for breakfast plus dinner. Simples.

 

http://www.booking.com/region/gb/shetland.en.html?aid=323684;label=shetland-GpoQ4ysnFCyhKS_O2q25pgS7200276043;ws=

 

However, even if it was only costing 25K per year to put up each consultant/council guest/external interviewees and guest workers (like Alistair Buchanan), if there were only 3 of them at any one time, the house would pay for itself within 3 years.

 

The council wouldnt need to pay for the house up front either. I think there are a few banks who would give mortgages at low credit ratings right now.

 

 

Wills in his rambling self-promoting defence, is correct about one thing, that there is a housing shortage in Shetland but that is a separate problem to the one he just shot down.

 

So what exactly is his plan to tackle the housing problem? Is he not being paid to help solve issues like these?

 

I think he's someone who has learned to throw poop at the fan to divert attention from his own lack of ideas.

 

Wills obviously has a big brain. Why cant he be constructive with it? Lets see some positive action.

 

I'm dissapointed that he has wasted so much time and effort to date when he has potential to do much better.

 

I do not hate him, I've never even met him, I'm just disgusted and angry at his behaviour.

[Ghostrider]

There needn't have been such a stink made over anything to do with consultants in the first place, as it misses the point entirely. The council only heed consultants' advice when the consultants tell them what they want to hear, their whole use is a pointless waste.

 

No point is quibbling and posturing in council meetings over where to house them, as its superficial. The real need is for the council to decide to either abide by the "expert" advice they're buying, or then stop wasting money buying something they never use.

[angelpie]

There needn't have been such a stink made over anything to do with consultants in the first place, as it misses the point entirely. The council only heed consultants' advice when the consultants tell them what they want to hear, their whole use is a pointless waste.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

There does seem to be a tendancy to hire consultants to back up every idea no matter how simple. The question is why?

[Spinner72]

^ So that when it all goes wrong, as it usually does, they can blame the consultants instead of accepting any responsibility themselves..

[shetlandpeat]

There will be a need for consultants at times, it all depends on their cost and benefit.

The council will not always be experts and will need a consultant to make them so.

 

Consultant should also be temp managers. The cost of advertising, employing, paying and housing a expert manager can far exceed the cost of short term and sometimes even long term.

 

As the council is cutting management, they should be looking at paying folk for short term contracts. This removes the need of liability insurance, pension payments, sick pay, holiday pay, relocation grant, island allowance, vehicle insurance, overtime and severance packages.

 

Unless you have accredited experts on the payroll you may need to hire them in.

 

If employing a consultant for 20 grand gets you 500,000 in funding, I cannot see how there can be a problem.

 

I doubt that folk have really looked into the alternatives. Also, what could be lost.

 

There is need of experts in odd fields, also the need to justify actions.

 

To say, I do not think they should be paid what they are paid, work out the actual cost of employing someone.

 

I just checked your link AnGLE, the average is 88.30, all provide breakfast, and why would you pay for folks evening meal?

 

As we know, the cheapest is 25 pounds.

 

the house cannot pay for its self. If the cheapest bed and breakfast is 25 pounds a night, I would not pay a consultant for evening meals, it is not a gravy train then even if the folk stay all year, the cost will be 9,125 then take off the VAT.

No bills, no cleaner, no cook, no liability.

 

The cost of employing someone can be 2-3 times the salary they are paid.

 

A senior manager could cost 120,000 to 150,000 if not more.

 

The general rate we have experienced is 450 per day for consultancy means that we can get them for 333 days, we have done it for as little as 380 which is 394 days, no other payments were made.

 

It should not be the consultant who bears the brunt of this but the employment of them. As councils are sacking managers that had certain experience they need to hire them back short term.

 

You would not employ a joiner for 365 days a year every year for your house, why would the council employ a design engineer full time untill they retire when you may only need them short term.

 

I suggest you do some research into costs. It is all on the web, you could try to provide perhaps a more educated argument.

[Ghostrider]

If employing a consultant for 20 grand gets you 500,000 in funding, I cannot see how there can be a problem.

 

The problem is in the *If*. Has it ever happened that a consultant's report was the deal breaker in attracting funding greater than that consultant cost? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, rather I'm asking for evidence of when it happened.

 

*If* (again that word) it can be proven that hiring a consultant results in overall monetary profit, so be it, that's fine, crash on with them. But the commonly employed use of consultants by the SIC (as preceived by a significant porportion of the electorate), is simply in advice that is supposedly intended to help the council make the most appropriate decision on any one given issue, and results in no special funding benefits at all.

[Guest Anonymous]

Maybe arguing over the reason an elected official feels it's appropriate to attempt to humiliate or even bully another member of said elected body in this manner is missing the point. But since he's offered up an addition to his growing list of unprofessional tantrums ie; Disclosing details of a secret meeting (again). I think maybe we should wonder what would happen if this individual was elected to, say, the health board? I don't think Mr Wills understands the concept of confidentiality, Never mind professional procedure!

In my opinion, This man believes he is untouchable and we only have ourselves to blame for that. Exactly how far will he be allowed to go and how often will his 'code' breaking antics be forgiven?

 

Mr Wills never has and never will have any other motive than self publicity!

Maybe he should set up his own sovereign state on his Island.. But then he'd want to lead, And he's not really cut out for that.

[shetlandpeat]

GR, a quick example, my consultant friend used their knowledge and experience to gain a favourable Ofsted inspection. Their previous one if repeated would have lost GOV funding for adult education, and other grants, the council would not have been able to merge with another provider which protected the service of both providers. If there was a bad report, the dept would have failed in its duty to provide.

 

My friend has been the nominee on many occasions and has never provided a -ve result, they are an expert in this field. This is why sometimes you need an expert, councils would not be able to afford to employ an expert in every field, just incase they are needed.

 

There is another way, get your butt of your chair and get involved. This goes to all the community. Imagine how much could be done if folk got involved.

The elections are soon, but we will see the same old faces, same old voters and same old results. Get a grip and get control.

[Para Handy]

There needn't have been such a stink made over anything to do with consultants in the first place, as it misses the point entirely. The council only heed consultants' advice when the consultants tell them what they want to hear, their whole use is a pointless waste.

 

No point is quibbling and posturing in council meetings over where to house them, as its superficial. The real need is for the council to decide to either abide by the "expert" advice they're buying, or then stop wasting money buying something they never use.

 

Well said Ghostrider.

And that’s why Graham Johnson did not get the CE post and the employed a half wit who did nothing and got a big pay off.

Graham told the councillors where they were wasting money and they did not like it.

[Gibber]

This is all about context, Clint Eastwood and Richard Burton both emulated Nazis in Where Eagles Dare, namely within the context of a film. John Cleese did it within the context of a sitcom. What JW did was emulate a Nazi within the context of making fun of someone else's (in his opinion) attitude.

 

Unfortunately it was also within the context of doing his job which requires a certain code of conduct and right after a minutes silence for the victims of someone who appears to hold similar far right views to the Nazis.

 

We've had the word n****r used within the context of a discussion about what is offensive in this thread, only an idiot would claim that anglepie is a racist or was being offensive for using that word as such.

 

I don't think anyone believes he supports Nazi idealology but are JW's actions offensive within the context of recently observing a minutes silence for the victims of a neo nazi? Probably, they certainly would be if he'd done it 5 minutes earlier during it.

[angelpie]

 

I just checked your link AnGLE, the average is 88.30, all provide breakfast, and why would you pay for folks evening meal?

 

As we know, the cheapest is 25 pounds.

 

.

 

a) I said Lerwick Hotels and the cheapest was 95. Evening meals while away from home are usually covered as a legit expense. I bet the council does pay either directly or in increased fees.

 

I doubt you could really put consultants up in a 25 a night (inc breakfast) B and B, but lets say you can, thats still 9 grand a year for a single full-time consultant/guest worker. We have several of these workers at the moment.

 

Just paying for one at 25 a night generates more than enough to cover the mortgage payments on a 3 bed house which in the end the council will own as an asset. Is it not better to invest in an asset than to pour the money away?

[Marooned in Maywick]

someone who appears to hold similar far right views to the Nazis.

 

 

 

a neo nazi

 

All in the one post. That's quite something, Gibber - even for you.

[Gibber]

Thanks.

 

I don't really know if you have a point but is it along the lines of you don't regard Anders Behring Breivik as a neo-nazi or someone with similar beliefs to the nazis or JW's salute wasn't a nazi salute?

 

This is a thread about a neo nazi and someone giving a nazi salute, don't you think the word nazi is going to come up in a discussion of such?

 

Isn't impersonating someone that does have something to say in a public forum the behaviour of a loser?

[Marooned in Maywick]

My point was that, in your customary style, you made the leap from your first to second description of Breivik.

 

Why go to the trouble of describing him in the first way only to shorten it the second time?

 

And just so that you don't misquote me or take my words out of context, my feelings are that Breivik is most certainly an evil, dangerous man who shares many characteristics with neo-nazis so could be called one.

 

Wills' salute and outburst, if we are to believe what has been written, was in the worst of poor taste and extremely ill-judged. I have supported him in the past but could not do so any more. If he stands at the next election I would expect the voters of whichever ward he stands in not to forget his actions.

 

I think you'll find the thread is about someone giving a nazi salute - unless you're describing Dr Wills as a neo-nazi.

 

And finally as to your last point...I'll bow to your expertise in demonstrating the behaviour of a loser.