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Jonathan Wills Nazi salute?


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You'll have to take my word that I have met many, both Scottish and UK parliaments here. I've spent time in the company of both old and new guard, UK-wise, and the last one I met who had the principles of common decency and an ability to tell the truth and admit lack of knowledge (rarely) or fallibility was the late - and, in my opinion, great - John Smith. The last true Labour leader and one of the greatest PMs this country never had...


So, Shetlandpeat, to recap, the principles I refer to are those of common decency, treating those around you with courtesy and respect, and telling the truth. Most, if not all, are sadly lacking in many of our modern politicians, both locally and nationally.


Why are you so intent on someone actually making a formal complaint against Dr W? Are those here not entitled to voice THEIR opinions anymore, that we must all accept yours, and your obvious support for the man? It's laudable and if I knew him better I maybe would do likewise. But when someone behaves badly in his position, they need to be challenged on it, in my opinion, and clearly I'm not alone in that. Challenge does not equal vilification or imposing punishments on the man. It's just saying to someone who's behaved badly, "I don't think you should have done that". If you do truly support him, you would be well placed to help him in this respect, as he clearly doesn't see the issue. But, I suppose, that's not going to happen because, clearly, neither do you.


It's a point on which we shall have to agree to disagree...

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The complaint would be properly investigated. It is the system that is being targeted as well as Cllr Wills. The system should be used, if you are going to comment publicly then do so. It would then clear this up one way or another. I am not for one side or the other in this case, just procedure.

Although I know of Cllr Wills, I do not really know him except through his projects in the past and his work on the lighthouse.

Many folk have a dislike for Cllr Wills, they make reference to his birthplace in their comments, though none here I have seen.

Letters to the papers are far more effective than annon posts here.

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Para Handy,


I apologise. When you posted your PT Barnum comment, I just skim read it. I have now had the time to actually read what you wrote in the second part...


:lol: :lol: :lol:


Ha ha :!:


Now that I have also read it again.

I am now suffering from the fact that you have figured it out.

Better! than I intended.

And seeing there is a double meaning.

That I have just seen my self.

:thmbsup :rofl:

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You say now that you are not for either side, and yet earlier in the thread you use the term "sneak" (interesting use of word for someone only concerned with procedure) to describe the person you believe behind the original leak. This, presumably, because they spoke out about what had happened at a secret meeting? Or just that they had spoken out about his latest antics? Yet no mention of his clear and evident breach of the Codes of Conduct in disclosing the full details of the meeting.


If you ARE truly so concerned only with procedure, why don't YOU make the complaint you appear so desperate for, now that Dr W has confirmed this in his own words?


Let's look at your impartial posts on the subject (aside from your repeated

earlier posts that this matter should be considered over because an apology had been offered and accepted, and this before we had heard from Mr Simpson, who now seems to feel somewhat differently)....


"If you do not like it, don't vote for any of them, as they are both to blame

perhaps. JS is as to blame then, why just pick on JW. Perhaps a vendetta."


Then again, later in the thread...


"I get the feeling you just hate JW. So what ever he does, you will condemn."


Also, I can't help but notice that you have a tendency throughout your posts in this thread to ridicule or subtly denigrate those who disagree with you. It's verging on, if not crossing over into, being snide, sneering and belittling, particularly towards Angelpie. That's quite unfortunate and unnecessary, in

my own opinion, and in day to day conversation I would challenge you over it, so that's why I'm pointing it out now. That's how I was raised and how I

conduct myself. So, you can imagine, if a spot of mild rudeness rankles, how much more does the boorish and self-indulgent conduct displayed by Dr W in this instance? :?


Then there's the rather bemusing...


"Many folk have a dislike for Cllr Wills, they make reference to his birthplace

in their comments, though none here I have seen."


So why bring it up then, unless to hint that this is the real, underlying motive for this thread and comments made against him? I'm not from Shetland (no, honestly!) and this has no impact whatsoever on decent human behaviour, in my opinion.


Lastly, there's the equally bemusing....


"Letters to the papers are far more effective than annon posts here."


and yet you post anonymously here on a regular basis (2148 times and



Is it that folk are only allowed to post where they agree with you? This is the perception I have of you, created by your tone throughout this thread. I may be wrong. I am, sometimes, and am not afraid to admit it or to publicly

apologise when I feel this is required.


I have no personal issue with you or, as I have said before, with Dr W. Like I say, it's just how I was raised (blame my parents then!).

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lifted straight out the ST piece...

Defending himself, Dr Wills said Mr Simpson “does not appreciate irony†but admitted that his “ironical†gesture had “backfired†– after which he had apologised for any offence caused. But he maintains that Mr Simpson was behaving in a “dictatorial†manner in the way he chaired the meeting.


I always understood it was the role of a chair person to "dictate" how a meeting progresses, if Dr Wills can't comply with that, then he is in the wrong job.

What he does need to get into his head, is that he is an elected representative of Shetland and it was in this capacity that he blundered, not while he is/was a journo, nor a tour boat operator; his actions are a window on the isles (edit) which could be misinterpreted as a widely held view amongst the population, although I am confident it's not.

His behaviour is appalling, his judgement is deeply flawed, and I say again he should do the decent thing and offer his resignation

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and yet you post anonymously here on a regular basis (2148 times and


Actually the figure is much higher. After he'd posted his first few hundred, all his posts were mysteriously deleted.

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You only need to ask me, pm me, others who have have found out who I am.


I do not hide like some.


EM, you seem to insinuate that I had something to do with the deletion, yet the posts are still there explaining.


The sneak, must have been a councillor or an officer. If there was something to go to Scrutiny, then that should have been the process, not reporting it to the Stun.


I am not in a position to make a complaint, as I personally find the matter of trivial importance compared to the bigger things that some of your councillors have been accused of in the past.


I do not agree that a chair can do what ever they like in a meeting.

Quarffie, you have been to many meetings, has it been acceptable for the chair to miss out or alter any part of the meeting without consent? Especially if the folk at the meeting think it is in need of debate? I remember the chair not answering certain topics to your satisfaction at a meeting at the Town Hall one evening and skipping a little. Also, having to admit to some problems he may not have wanted to answer.


I have no hate for anyone, some times a mild dislike. As JW is the one being reported on and no one else in the same vein, then does that not seem to be part of the point.

Other comments are observations, it has been in the past that it is more important where folk come from than any skills they have. The comments on anyone brought in to do a job seems to be subject to this, especially if it highly paid.


And this is a forum where anyone can make comment. Which they do. Regardless of where they come from.

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The sneak, must have been a councillor or an officer.


Though I initially thought the same, this is far from the case. As I posted a while back, news of what Cllr Wills had done had spread around most of Shetland long before the sun report which was only published the following day.


Anybody could have reported it to them, even someone being contacted as par of their Topiary investigations could have taken the opportunity. "Nope, dont know a hacker, but have you heard what one of our councillors did today?"

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And yet you persist in using a non de plume, as do many of us. To tell you the truth, I'm not really interested in who you are, it doesn't change how you behave. Unless, like Dr W, you're an elected representative. It's that last word that's important, I believe. He represents US. Sometimes I think he loses sight of that, as do many politicians, in my experience. They have their own axes to grind and agendas to serve, and often their constituents are just an excuse to progress these as they please.


Once again, you use "the sneak". That makes Dr Wills a really big sneak then, by your thinking, given his conduct over the entire Clarke affair. "Procedure" went right out the window and "Press" came in. Never mind that it could have been someone at the meeting telling a friend or family member what had taken place, and THEY were so outraged they contacted the Press.

Unless you know the whistleblower's identity, you are making assumptions

and casting aspersions on the councillors who were present.


"And this is a forum where anyone can make comment. Which they do. Regardless of where they come from"


Thanks for clearing that up. It helps constructive debate and engages further input, though, if the comments are polite, courteous and refrain from insulting

people. Otherwise we just end up with tangential petty sniping back and fore, and hi-jacking of a thread.


So, back to business...


Do you deny Dr Wills' behaviour was unacceptable and that he is an elected representative, therefore answerable to his constituents. Nothing to do with "complaints", etc. Just an answer covering these would be appreciated.


I DO feel his behaviour was unacceptable and that he owes us, his constituents, an apology and assurance that it will not be repeated. Then I will consider the matter over.

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Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. If they're up here digging in to "Topiary" and getting little or nothing, a wee story like this is a gift to any tabloid. An elected Councillor giving a Nazi salute in public? I'm only surprised they didn't have an "artists interpretation" of the incident. Perhaps Smirk will put that right, in due course... :wink:

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