Spinner72 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 And you should resign as Moderator if you continue your witch hunt against JW. Far from a witchhunt. I have often stated my personal respect for everything Jonathon has done, but nothing anybody does should excuse them for the faux pas he has been involved in since becoming an elected member. Yeah, but did he? What was the context? Until there's a verified account from an unbiased source (could be tricky) then calls for resignation seem a little premature... Plenty of councillors to ask... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISOT Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 He was quick enough to 'call in' The Sun when deadly Dave was at the helm! As someone else has said its difficult not to visualise him getting on his high horse if someone else had done the same, in jest or not! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Plenty of councillors to ask... I did say an unbiased source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelpie Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Yeah, but did he? What was the context?" John Cleese and Faulty Towers aside, exactly what kind of context, for a Shetland Councillor giving a Nazi salute, is there that is acceptable to you? The Sun still bound by liable law. If he's innocent then they will be taken to court and Wills will get a nice pay off. I suspect though that he's guilty. Anyway, I expect we will "read all about it" in the Shetland Times (not owned by Mr R Murdock) on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelpie Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Plenty of councillors to ask... I did say an unbiased source... These are the people he has worked with and who know him the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Yeah, but did he? What was the context?" John Cleese and Faulty Towers aside, exactly what kind of context, for a Shetland Councillor giving a Nazi salute, is there that is acceptable to you? . My own personal definition of what is acceptable to me is, surely, beside the point? However, you can pretty much take it as a given that any extreme gesture which somehow aligns me with the far-right, whilst simultaneously disrespecting the families of recently slain Norwegians is something I'd seek to avoid... While I know little of Mr Wills, other than what I read in The Shetland Times, I suspect that he'd have a little more sense than to engage in anything as quite as openly offensive as The Super, Soar-away Sun loudly implies... Still, I wasn't there so I will wait until I read a slightly less inflammatory account before casting dispersions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 These are the people he has worked with and who know him the best. AKA political rivals? Or are we to believe that the council is a place of harmonious team work, where councillors unfettered by ego or prejudice work together for the greater good? Recent local coverage would suggest otherwise... Besides, I wasn't being entirely serious. Learn your emoticons -they will serve you well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 John Cleese and Faulty Towers aside, exactly what kind of context, for a Shetland Councillor giving a Nazi salute, is there that is acceptable to you? While it may be difficult to find a context that doing so is "acceptable", the exact context of where, when, how and why dictates whether it was a wholly inappropriate, offensive and despicable gesture, or simply an unwise attempt at light-heartedness and in somewhat poor taste. The difference being that while its difficult to argue that the guy didn't make a faux pas of note, whether he deserves a lynch mob heading for Bressay with burning bands and pitchforks, or to be ridiculed and made fun of for it, relies entirely on where along the above context line the matter falls. The Sun, especially the Scottish Sun, IMHO , is a very shaky source of evidence to base any final judgement on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 I tend to agree with Ally on this. The way the Sun article reads tends to infer that there was straight arm waving finger pointing gestures delivered in the chamber whereas the literal meaning of the particular phrase mentioned is "Yes my leader". Doesn't quite have the same connotations when not delivered in the German language I agree but surely hardly newsworthy and an over reaction to a schoolboyish jape delivered no doubt tongue in cheek by JW at a most inapproriate juncture. He was being stupid and insensitive and thus was right to retract the statement when censured by his colleagues and perhaps should have delivered the same phrase in swahili or esperanto instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwithin Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 I spoke to a person who was there, they said they were all totally shocked as it was so inappropriate at the time. But its really not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner72 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Plenty of councillors to ask...I did say an unbiased source... True of course, but they're pretty much the only option here. Just imagine, however, if it had been someone else and Wills had been present.... At the end of the day, it was most likely a childish verbal reaction (though the sun carefully implies a physical salute) made without thinking, but that is all the more damning. He is quite welcome to be a fully fledged Nazi extremist in his own time, but as an elected member there are standards all must abide by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axolotl Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Ghostrider wrote: wholly inappropriate, offensive and despicable gesture, or simply an unwise attempt at light-heartedness and in somewhat poor taste The SUN wrote: "A POLITICIAN shocked a meeting by giving a Nazi salute - moments after a minute's silence was held for the Norway massacre. Dr Jonathan Wills shouted 'Ja Wohl Mein Fuhrer' after clashing with Shetland Islands Council political chief Josie Simpson. But the Lerwick councillor sparked fury among colleagues - as moments before the private meeting had paid its respects to the 76 people slain by neo-fascist gunman Anders Breivik. A source said: "It was outrageous. A minute's silence had been held, a book of condolence was discussed and Wills comes out with that They added: "Josie crossed swords with him on a matter of procedure and he retorted with a Hitler salute." Last night a council spokesman said Dr Wills "respectfully withdrew his comments". He added: "That was the end of the matter." " " As far as I can see nobody with any knowledge of the proceedings is arguing that events did not occur as described, I know where this falls on my personal spectrum of "acceptability". Such a failure of judgement in a political representative is hardly credible, never mind acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladylady Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 I know where this falls on my personal spectrum of "acceptability". Such a failure of judgement in a political representative is hardly credible, never mind acceptable. Indeed. And this is the behaviour of an elected councillor? Surely in no way acceptable? But, hey, let's blame the "Sun" for their reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 ^^ The problem is the description is vague at best. "Moments", are we talking 15 seconds or 15 minutes. Was the meeting actually in session when it happened, were Wills and Simpson discussing procedure as part of the meeting, if it was in progress, or had they withdrawn to a side to do so? Etc, etc.... Much is suggested and insinuated, very little is actually stated unambigously and categorically. If Robertson could be considered part of a SCT meeting while sitting in a "members" chair, and thus making it quorate, despite having stated he was taking no part in the meeting in place. It poses the question whether Wills considered himself, and was considered as being part of the meeting by other members and officials at the moment he did it. Such crap cuts both ways, if Robertson could (apparently) consider himself not part of a meeting, yet officials and at least some other members consider that he was, there's nothing to stop Wills claiming he didn't consider himself part of the meeting at the moment in question either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OP8S Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 I think the most shocking thing about the whole situation is the fact that folk buy & even worse believe the tripe that is daily printed by rags such as The Sun & similar red-top papers. Whether he made a faux-paus or not is quite a trivial matter & should not be sensationalised by the gutter press. When it comes down to local councillers that are an embarrasment, well , you've got quite a few to choose from & this shouldn't be used as a means of personally attacking just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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