Shetland schools and education system

[penfold]

( ** MOD EDIT ** - Title changed from "School Closures" to be allow wider debate.)

 

So Closures of schools are back on the agenda I wonder if the council will have the will to see them through this time?

[Sam]

they are several points to remember

 

everyone wants a school near them

is it realy cost efective to have a school with hardly any children in them.

what is good for one area in shetland should be ok for others. ie the south end of shetland has 1 school and everyone seems to be happy with that - so why cant that not work for the north isles or north shetland?

 

but the main point is will the actual councelers have the back bone to save money rather than spend it - i dont think they do but i will be watching. to many want to be populer in shetland and cant take the hassel to make tough desitions.

[breeksy]

Its about time they closed Skerries High - I believe Fair Isle have more (than two) High school age kids, and they have to travel to the AHS, why should Skerries be different?

[JustMe]

Aside from cash savings vs longer journeys to school there is also the question of the kids personal development which could be enhanced by being in a school with more pupils.

 

The "save our school" attitude is understandable but I think there is a lot of emotion rather than reason in the protests and I think it is up to councillors to consider each closure without emotion.

 

If the councillors are not prepared to make decisions that are unpopular either in their own area or even throughout Shetland then they should consider stepping down.

[Sam]

Its about time they closed Skerries High - I believe Fair Isle have more (than two) High school age kids, and they have to travel to the AHS, why should Skerries be different?

 

totaly agree with you there!

[penfold]

I agree people feel that any loss of amenity is a further erosion of their community such as post office, shop etc, but the cost of keeping these schools going isnt value for money, they would be better served using the money saved on training more teachers and support staff, the down side to this though that there will be job losses. Cleaners, dinner staff, class room assitants, will more that likely loss their jobs and in a small community this I think will be felt more than the loss of community identity with the School closure.

[NewMagnie]

True, but its not huge, closing small schools with, perhaps a part time cleaner and meals driven in from an adjacent junior high will neither save much cash - the cost of maintaining the building remains - or do much harm locally. Teachers are notoriously hard to sack so they'll be decanted along with the kids to said adjacent JH. The impact on the education budget will be minimal.

 

Its worth doing from the point of view of creating better social development conditions for the kids though, spending each and every day with the same handful of peers isn't going to do you much good when you get a little bigger and venture out into the wider world.

[peeriebryan]

Here's a link to the story from the www.shetland-news.co.uk website

 

School closures back on the table

 

 

We could organise a poll for this thread, if folk want to suggest the appropriate categories (maybe something better than 'do you think the SIC should close schools? yes/no')

[penfold]

True, but its not huge, closing small schools with, perhaps a part time cleaner and meals driven in from an adjacent junior high will neither save much cash - the cost of maintaining the building remains - or do much harm locally. Teachers are notoriously hard to sack so they'll be decanted along with the kids to said adjacent JH. The impact on the education budget will be minimal.

 

Its worth doing from the point of view of creating better social development conditions for the kids though, spending each and every day with the same handful of peers isn't going to do you much good when you get a little bigger and venture out into the wider world.

 

They closed the smaller schools in bigton, robins brae, quendale, and virkie and amalgamated them to make the Dunrossness primary school back at the end of the 60's start of the 70's(no quite sure of the date) having always attended a large school I wouldnt know what the difference between a small single teacher school and a larger one in terms of development and social interaction would be,

but the wife attended one of the smaller schools listed for closure, and she states that she thinks dat wir bairn has more opportunity for developement at Dunrossness primary than she feels she had at the peerie school.

[Styles]

I hope the schools are closed as the ammount spent by the SIC on education is crazy.

[shetlander]

True, but its not huge, closing small schools with, perhaps a part time cleaner and meals driven in from an adjacent junior high will neither save much cash - the cost of maintaining the building remains - or do much harm locally. Teachers are notoriously hard to sack so they'll be decanted along with the kids to said adjacent JH. The impact on the education budget will be minimal.

 

Its worth doing from the point of view of creating better social development conditions for the kids though, spending each and every day with the same handful of peers isn't going to do you much good when you get a little bigger and venture out into the wider world.

 

I'm assuming the example you give might be different but I know for a fact that in addition to a teacher, the staff compliment at one of the small primaries earmarked for closure includes a cook, a cleaner, a part time supervisory assistant and a part time clerical assistant as well as visiting instructors. Its obvious that maintaining that level of staffing for such a low number of pupils simply isn't sustainable in the current financial climate.

 

According to Neil Galbraith's report, the Council do indeed have an obligation to redeploy teachers and other staff to schools elsewhere. Unless vacancies which arise in any of the affected schools between now and when they actually close are filled as temporary positions, I would assume therefore that there would indeed be a negligible reduction in staffing costs in the short term. However, I would again assume (or it would certainly make sense) that if staff in any of those enlarged schools then left that their positions wouldn't be re-filled, leading to savings in staffing costs in the longer term. As far as the buildings go, the report seems to imply that they would or could be sold off - I don't know if that was the case when the likes of Haroldswick or Quarff closed?

 

Nobody likes to see anyone elses local school close and despite what the letters page of the Shetland Times might imply, I still maintain that there is a large but silent majority of folk out there who will support the closures and pat councillors on the back if they do indeed make the very difficult but necessary decision to do so. Its hardly scientific but its interesting to see that the majority of posts on this thread (having the protection of anonymity) support the cuts.

[peeriebryan]

Another link from the www.shetland-news.co.uk website

 

School closures will keep returning

[Sam]

I hope the schools are closed as the ammount spent by the SIC on education is crazy.

 

they could do with a clear out in hayfeild house first though!

[peeriebryan]

Schools axe threat - from www.shetlandtoday.co.uk

[NewMagnie]

 

I'm assuming the example you give might be different but I know for a fact that in addition to a teacher, the staff compliment at one of the small primaries earmarked for closure includes a cook, a cleaner, a part time supervisory assistant and a part time clerical assistant as well as visiting instructors. Its obvious that maintaining that level of staffing for such a low number of pupils simply isn't sustainable in the current financial climate.

 

It is - I was thinking of Haroldswick which had a lower staff compliment and no kitchens and the teaching and auxilliary staff were transferred to BJHS - the only job loss was a cleaner and possibly a part time admin. By and large, visiting specialists are attached to neighbouring junior highs.

 

Generally speaking, you're right, you'd make your staff savings in the longer term but the trend to increased staffing in all schools shows little sign of being reversed. McCrone, for example, is already resulting in greater numbers of admin staff and classroom staff. Any staff savings you make in the medium term will be absorbed by increased staff requirements in the longer term. On the other hand, a few closures might bring us to a standstill rather than an incremental increase in staff.

 

As for selling off the buildings - you probably could although I'd rather see them turned into decentralised council offices. I don't suppose it'll make a great deal of difference either way.

 

For myself, it doesn't really matter, - its an academic argument (boom boom). I don't think the savings made by closing a few peerie schools will amount to much - addressing the level of provision in the bigger schools would probably save more.