Religions on Education committee

[scoots]

She was explicit on her return in explaining that she was greatly distressed that I would be going to hell along with her little brother, amongst other things.

 

Grim as this is, it is by no means the worst of what was supposed to have been said. The comments to kids about the Jews, if true, are simply unforgivable.

 

"Now, the terminate with extreme prejudice part of me suggested getting in the car and going to Sumburgh to have a frank discussion with the people who pupport to be "Christians" that run this camp. The hearts and minds department of Jambo6's (Top Secret) military operations won the day though and decided we have a year to rectify this indoctrination.

 

I like your thinking.

 

"chooses to express himself like a naughty schoolboy, which unfortunately

undermines his point of view."

 

An almost permanent condition, it seems. I've said in another thread here and I'll say it again. The man is clearly highly intelligent and is just simply capable of so much more positive actions and results, if it wasn't for all the childish tomfoolery that he gets up to. Brain/mouth engagement dysfunction, I believe.

[the pursuit of oblivion]

For instance, I have recently heard a tale about comments made to children at the summer Christian kids camp, which I hope are untrue or exaggerated. Because, if not, things have not changed at all and what was said is repulsive and disgusting in its lack of morality.

 

Wir pals boy phoned home late at night terrified the family were all going to hell.

 

The worst thing about this is that people from this summer camp were allowed into schools to promote it during school time. Basically lessons were interrupted so the organisers of the camp could do self promotion to the bairns.

 

Our kids came home putting loads of pressure on us to let them go as some "nice guy had come into the class and told them it was all games, waterfights and trips to Lerwick!" Then when all the other kids are going the pressure to give in is pretty tough!

 

Wld we be allowed into the school to promote a pagan kids summer camp I wonder?

 

But that's not really the point. We want to be tolerant and allow those people who live under ancient belief systems to do what they want in their own time and privacy.

 

If that was how it was then we would never even know what the word athiest meant. But it's the constant aggressive encroachment into our lives that we end up having to defend.

 

As Arthur Clarke said;

I would defend the liberty of consenting adult creationists to practice whatever intellectual perversions they like in the privacy of their own homes; but it is also necessary to protect the young and innocent

 

It still bothers me that someone up the tree allowed these people into the school to persuade bairns to come to the summer camps in the first place -and that was before they added these three god botherers to the education committee!

[OP8S]

^ I would say that Arthur C Clarke's quotation is very accurate & succint, after all is religion not just an ancient form of social control ? Maybe instead of brainwashing impressionable youngsters by making them study R.E. then they could replace it with a more acceptable class which teaches the more widely held moral values that we all should hold as a society & that most religions hold anyway. Instead of the lesson being specifically on the subject of religion. If at a later date they want to investigate the ideals of different religions then they have the rest of their life to do so.

With religion being the cause of so much violence & oppression now & in the last century it is at the very least a bit of a sticky subject which can be interpreted in very different ways depending on the views of the teacher, as is apparent by the anxiety caused to some of these youngsters that have spent the summer at the Christian boot, sorry youth camp.

[man of kent]

Religion in schools isn't a problem surely, so you lot don't believe, I wonder if you told your children there was a Santa Claus?

Did that do them any harm?

No real differnce is there?

 

When I grew up in Lerwick, we had religious studies in school at least twice a week, Choir practice on Friday night, Church twice on Sunday, plus sunday school in between the church sessions, church cub pack on a Monday night.

Sally Army youth club Tuesday's and Thursday's, never did me any harm.

 

Give them religious education, let them decide if its truth, part truth or a good selling book that has loads of stories in it?

 

Education committees and religious people, I suppose the law expects religious leaders to be good, upstanding members of society rather than those who are not? Funny really when you think of how many catholic priests have done some funny things with their choir boys?

I hasten to add, my church was St. Magnus therefore not RC - phew!

[scoots]

I hope I'm misinterpreting the tone at the end of your post there, man of Kent? I'm not Catholic but I'm sure there have been more than a few C of E and all the other branches done or investigated at dome point also? Granted maybe no as many as the Catholic Church but then they have that bloody stupid rule about celibacy that only came in in the Middle Ages!! Before that I believe they were expected to marry but then they elected a monk to Pope and did as he did (in public!).

 

But I don't like the portrayal of any one branch of Christianity as better than another. That segregates folk.

 

Anyway, your point about RE would be fine if it wasn't divisive and aggressive as - apparently - it was at this camp. Like I said, if the comments about Jews are true and my kid had been there, I'd be taking it as far as I could to put s stop to it in future. If that's RE, keep it.

 

Schools pledge to teach kids values and morals anyway, reinforcing what should be in the home. If that's the case, they dont need RE. My son has already started worrying about God watching him and going to He'll when he dies. That is WRONG. We talk regularly and I tell him this is what some folk believe and, if he wants to when he's older, he can find out more and go to church. But until then, I'll fill him on the realities of "Christianity" and where it came from, just like someone said before. The lies and fraud and corruption of power, slaughter if innocents. Last bits when he's older obviously!! All in the name of my God being better bigger and stronger and more "right" than yours??

 

Like I said, keep it. But if folk feel so strongly about this committee, protest. Petition Mr Scott & Mr Carmichael to raise this archaic and ridiculous law in the right places where something can be done about it. Just a suggestion.

[jambo6]

Religion in schools isn't a problem surely, so you lot don't believe, I wonder if you told your children there was a Santa Claus?

Did that do them any harm?

No real differnce is there?

 

When I grew up in Lerwick, we had religious studies in school at least twice a week, Choir practice on Friday night, Church twice on Sunday, plus sunday school in between the church sessions, church cub pack on a Monday night.

Sally Army youth club Tuesday's and Thursday's, never did me any harm.

 

Give them religious education, let them decide if its truth, part truth or a good selling book that has loads of stories in it?

 

Education committees and religious people, I suppose the law expects religious leaders to be good, upstanding members of society rather than those who are not? Funny really when you think of how many catholic priests have done some funny things with their choir boys?

I hasten to add, my church was St. Magnus therefore not RC - phew!

 

As I said, I place as much importance on freethinking as I do on atheism which is why my daughter is free to choose to go to sunday school and youth camp, I am also happy for my children to be educated about Religion by the school as it is a factor in life that they need to understand. That doesnt mean I think that what you are describing - a completely biased religious education/indoctrination - is in any way appropriate. It might have done you no harm but that doesnt mean to say everyone would come through it with an unbiased view, and how useful was it? Education should be about equipping people with skills and knowledge that will be useful to them, not about filling their heads with a lot of unprovable maybes that even on their best day won't fill a basket at Tesco's.

 

I had a schooling that involved religious assembly daily, prayers 3 times a day, cubs, scouts, Christian RE twice a week, church etc too. By the time I was 7 I had made the clear observation that it was all unverified and unlikely to be true. Can you imagine how frustrating it was to endure 10 more years of being educated and proseltysed to about something that was patently without evidence? For that reason alone I dont think people of a single religion should be let anywhere near an education committee.

 

BTW, comparing Santa Claus - a magic man who brings presents, to a Christian God - an omnipotent entity that can damn you to hell for eternity, is a pretty cheap shot. Here's some context though if you wish to draw such a comparison. You described your RE as involving 9 seperate events each week - thats coming close to 500 events per year. How many events per year did Santa involve you in?

[the pursuit of oblivion]

Religion in schools isn't a problem surely, so you lot don't believe, I wonder if you told your children there was a Santa Claus?

Did that do them any harm?

 

How many adults still believe in Santa Claus tho?

 

Think there might just a slight difference.

 

In any case we are not disputing a parents right to pass views/beliefs on to their kids (although that could be a good debate!). This thread is about schools passing beliefs that are arbitrary to say the least, on to our kids.

[unlinkedstudent]

How many adults still believe in Santa Claus tho?

 

Think there might just a slight difference.

 

 

I totally believe in Santa Claus and cos I always very good, I ALWAYS get what I want!

[klanky]

The problem is that Santa Claus does not attempt to govern the populace with a mixture of guilt trips, oppressive teachings and instilling fear of the unknown.

 

'Religious' leaders do. I'd be happier if Santa Claus was offered a non-elected position as opposed to those who belong to a mediaevel system that has no place in modern Government.

 

And it's 'Father Christmas'...not Santa Claus, wouldn't want to offer a saint a position, would we?

[OP8S]

It apears obvious what an emotive subject the teaching of religous beliefs are in just a few posts, even when it's differences of opinions between the views held by denominations of the same faith, christianity. I'm sure in Shetland the majority of believers in a higher power are still christian held beliefs, whether they be RC, Baptists, Methodists, Protestants, etc. Though with an increase of incomers I'm sure that there must be some Muslims, Hindus, Budhists ( the list could be endless I'm sure ) who practice their religions & live by their own beliefs. The school that my children attend is very much more multi-cultural than the AHS was back in my day, they're both still in primary school & so Religous Education is not a subject that they actually study in any great depth but none the less is a subject that teachers touch upon. As far as I have seen purely from visits to the school for parents evening the emphasis is placed on the acceptance & tolerance of their classmates varying cultural / religous differences, something that I am very pleased about as it is providing them with an open mind on matters of religous differences should they feel that they want to become involved in a particular religion in the future, which of course will be their own desicion to make. Not some ideal pushed upon them by their parents or anybody else.

Religious Education should be just that, educating pupils about the many & varied religions of the world. Not focusing on any particular religion at all. As for Santa Claus, nowadays he's got more of a connection to the consumer society that we live in than the birth of a joiner.

[Para Handy]

That’s all we needed the church having access to the children.

As if our counclors weren’t enough of a problem throwing spanners in the works

 

If you want to bring a project to a stand still. Set up a committee with the church and the council

After 10 years or so they will produce a Giraffe

 

The only good thing may be instead of hinging around the street at lunch time they will have to go to confession.

[ArabiaTerra]

Damn it, I now got Lord of the Dance and All Things Bright n Beautiful in my head; need some help fast ...

Here you go:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPriOQkKd6k

[Guest posiedon]

There's a Christian apologist here in Shetland who I've crossed swords with via Readers views in the Times, he denies the fact of evolution!

 

Just the kind of unelected/uneducated twit you would want on an education committee, Not.

 

Is This over privileged minority [Christians] the same people I read about on an almost daily basis, bleating about how they are being persecuted?

 

As an aside, their bible tells them they will be persecuted so if they are, surely they should be pleased that the bible at least got one thing right.

[OP8S]

It's enough to make an evolved mind cry ! You can only wonder what the religous stance would be on sex education if such a person was to have any influence on what is taught in schools. A scary thought.

[unlinkedstudent]

^^^ Gosh, many thanks AT, I needed that (just don't go and spoil it by mentioning Viking Energy). However, one does feel that this Monty Python would have been more appropriate:-

 

http://youtu.be/WlBiLNN1NhQ

 

Edit: checks to see if I've got a temperature, I've just thanked AT.