Religions on Education committee

[scoots]

Shetlandpeat,

 

You had to say it, didn't you?...

 

"Christian rituals are still the mainstay of annual events."

 

In a word, no.

 

Christmas, the birth of Jesus, on 25th December? Rubbish. Yule. The old festival where fire was kept burning (the log) continually during the darkest days of winter, so that the sun would rise again.

 

Easter, maybe? Nope, not that one either. The festival of Spring and the Goddess Eostre. The resurrection after 3 days? Direct lift from Mithras, who, in their teachings, would incarnate and be sacrificed by his followers. They'd

eat his body and blood and take the God into themselves. His symbol was the cross. His Roman followers depicted him with the sun riding behind his head. See early Christian illustrations for how they merely borrowed this for the new "God", to keep the soldiers - he was a warrior God, primarily - happy

and following him re-labelled as Christ.

 

All Hallows Day? Nope. A tack on to Samhain (Hallowe'en), one of the

principle pre-Christian dates in the British Isles, to make Samhain "bad" by associating it with devils and witches.

 

The early Christian Church was amazing and unmatched in all of recorded history in its ability to dish out propaganda. It swallowed and renamed and subsumed the faiths and festivals of every country and religion they spread into as the Romans conquered or maintained their place in previously occupied territory. More than a few of the accounts from the Gospels relate to events or myths "borrowed" from other religions, making them either good or bad (like St Brigid, in Ireland, or the Black Madonna, in mainland Europe).

 

To maintain now that these are "Christian" festivals is misleading or ignorant or naive. It's just simply, categorically, not true.

 

There's no faith as dangerous as blind faith. A Jesuit scholar I used to know say that to every child he taught. Learn about history. Question your faith.

If, after all that, you still believe, then it is for you, and you for it. But to believe, simply because you are told, or vecause someone wrote it down around 1700 years ago? Well, that IS blind and hives it no more substance or weight than the Heimskringla or Prose Edda. Maybe we should give these equal footing with the Bible in our schools?

[unlinkedstudent]

^ Excellent post Scoots.

 

I was brought up Christian but decided that christianity was not the faith for me. I apologise if my mischievous behaviour earlier upset anyone of any faith but I do really have difficulties with a lot of the so-called Christian teachings. To me, morals and how you live your life are far more important. I have some very kind, caring Christian friends but I just cannot handle this going to Church on a Sunday in your best clothes and people who state that their religion is the only way. Yes SP, there are groups that do a lot of good, such as the Salvation Army running soup kitchens and the like but just because someone is homeless does that mean that gradually, when needing shelter, that particular religion should be forced on them and their soul 'saved'?

 

I was homeless at 16 in London and lived in squats. I'll never forget one particular squat where the property was run down and was owned by the Church of England. That had to be the most rapid Notice served ever (within 48 hours) - was that a Christian thing to do to someone requiring shelter - but hey, who is the richest landowner in England?

 

Joking on here aside, I do believe in trying to understand other people's faiths, if nothing else in order to help them and understand them as individuals. That said, I would never insist that somebody should believe in what I believe in and try and convert them. How many wars are started because of religion?

 

Re education - church schools and science and mainstream schools for that matter - so in RE you got God made the world in rapid time and in science a different explanation? No wonder kids get confused ...

 

[paulb]

unlink RE is not like that anymore more to do with understanding others beliefs and cultures.

 

when i was a kid apart from the assemblies i can't remember the RE classes. mainly i guess as they were run by the same rubbish teachers that taugh education for life.

we mainly ended up just copying off the board as we kept winding them up.

 

i know that we were kept in at dinner time once and was made to cop;y the lords prayer as lines. strangly this teaching style failed quite badly.

[shetlandpeat]

So, now then, I am being told that my thoughts are wrong by another who has different thoughts about the same subject.

 

I wonder why there is so much Church activity around Christmas. Am I being told that there are no Christian activities that accompany some annual events. Mass? Communion? The Alter Call? Speaking in Tongues? They are all interlinked as Christianity is thought to stem from Judaism and Hebrew, and on and on (like the writers of some of the Hymns Anon)

 

We could then say that all religions are based from the rising of the sun and moon, if all they do is hijack celebrations.

 

Is there anything in the Constitution that stops this from happening. All councils have to have policies set in place. Has anyone who is worried about this asked?

I do get it, but the seeds of your complaining are being scattered on barren land here. If your representatives think it is right and proper to bring in folk who have Religious standing, and vote to do so, then the peoples representatives have done this on behalf of those elected for what they believe is their best interest.

As a citizen you have a perfect right to complain about anything you want to, perhaps a complaint to the council may provide you with an answer.

Your gripe is that the people have not directly elected committee members, but they never really have just the folk made up from them.

 

The sad thing is the most negative arguments against a religion have been placed here. As a poison challis perhaps to get the mood swinging? I wonder is this the sort of thing that is wrong?? http://www.scottishinterfaithcouncil.org/24.html

 

I may be the case with the cut backs, other help may be needed to keep the numbers up so to speak. To provide a service.

[EM]

Atheism is a belief system,...

Yes.

 

..., same as any other Religion

Absolutely not. Atheism is fundamentally built upon the Scientific Method. Religions are not. If you, or anyone else, are not aware that this is not a sufficiently profound difference to matter, I feel it would be beneficial to investigate the essence of the Scientific Method further. It really is well worth knowing why these things are not the same.

[scoots]

There's so much Church activity around Christmas simply because, in order to extend their control over the "heathens" they were seeking to control and subsume into their Holy Roman Empire, they co-opted the most important festival of that religion. If the sun didn't come back, winter would reign and nothing would grow. The rebirth of the sun was, quite simply, the most important thing in their world. The Christians decided that this was best done by making this festival a celebration of their messiah. Same as they rewrote and edited, suppressed and destroyed what others had written who knew the man, but whose writings more reflected his wish to see man return to worship and less their message that they were appointed to rule by Divine Right. Hell was invented for the same reason. It was a means of terrifying ignorant superstitious folk. "Obey us, God's chosen, or burn in Hell for eternity".

 

Even as a young child I could not reconcile a God of infinite love, as Jesus was alleged to have preached, with a God who would let an unbaptised baby burn

in Hell because of "Original Sin". Goebbels was a BIG fan of the Bible and the Holy Roman Empire for just these reasons. Teach a child that they're born evil and tainted and must make up for it and obey every command, or it's back to being damned? Genius! Instill fear and blind obedience in a child and they'll carry it with them into adulthood, unless they get the chance to

question or be educated otherwise.

 

Basic principles of any conquering autocratic oligarchy, that one.

 

If these critical mainstays of your faith are lies, what else is there? Don't get me wrong, you obviously haven't read the part of my post quoting my Jesuit

friend. If you still believe after looking into it, good for you. It's your business, your soul, not mine. But if you just say, well, the minister said it, the Bible says it, it must be right, then we are straying into Milgram territory ("we do what we are told", so long as it's by someone in a position of authority, with vestments of power). That's worrying. It's what allows fundamentalists, of any religion, to program vulnerable persons to carry out acts they, otherwise, would not have dreamed of. Jonestown, Waco, the Oklahoma federal buildings, as well as the current crop of Muslim martyrs.

 

I dont want my children programmed. End of. But it's an accepted hard and proven fact, unlike almost anything in the Bible, that given the child for the first few years of their life, and you will create and program their adult belief system and behaviour.

 

All you believers, I couldn't be more happy for you. But leave my kids alone. Worship your version of God in peace.

[shetlandpeat]

Lucky I am not a Christian, you all fight amongst yourselves.

 

Perhaps wider representation of the Faiths is required, more should be on the Committees if there are people to represent.

 

Freemen are able to attend and have a say, unelected. As are the public in some cases.

At least these guys come free., shame all the consultants are not.

[scoots]

It's human nature to fight over faith, not limited to Christianity, by any means.

 

And there you go with that disdainful and superior attitude again.

 

Personally, I believe the only folk on these committees, or any others arising from Council matters, are elected councillors. If it's spiritual advice they need, try Derek Acorah.

[unlinkedstudent]

It's human nature to fight over faith, not limited to Christianity, by any means.

 

And there you go with that disdainful and superior attitude again.

 

Personally, I believe the only folk on these committees, or any others arising from Council matters, are elected councillors. If it's spiritual advice they need, try Derek Acorah.

 

Na, he'd ask Sam.

[scoots]

(Croaked in nasal Scouse twang)

 

"I'm gettin a long ship... Does that mean anythin to youse? And... And... Whass that, Sam? A load of blokes in dresses?..."

[shetlandpeat]

Humans will fight over most things, oil, land, belief and possession.

 

Still, if the Committee wants these folk involved, and there is nothing that can be done about it right now, it could be prudent to work on a policy that would prevent this in the future. Please also remember, the need the officers on these committees with their expertise and guidance, as they are the ones who know what can or cannot be done. Imagine just letting the Councillors in these meetings, you may have something to complain about then, if complaining about councillors was made against the law by the committee of councillors.

 

Now you resort to character building. Tis all fun.

 

[khitajrah]

There are plenty of e-petitions to sign. Change has to begin somewhere.

[shetlandpeat]

There are plenty of e-petitions to sign. Change has to begin somewhere.

 

It seems latin is popular.

 

Omni Consumpta Sunt

[GypsyScy]

While on the subject of religion:

 

http://www.countmeout.ie/suspension/

 

Many tens of thousands of Irish people are being prevented from having taken off the catholic churches register. A decision that was made for them in infancy is now being held to ransom by the church. No freedom of religion in Ireland. I want my name taken off their headcount as do many others I know.The actual number of catholics in Ireland will be a great deal smaller in fact than published!

[shetlandpeat]

That is a problem, it must be quite a pain. No doubt all avenues must have been explored.

It must also be on the birth certificate, as is my parents wishes for me. I guess they were thinking of the current situation where if I were not at birth a Christian it could have impeded my future.

I do not think you can change a birth certificate.