If Scotland became independant, what would Shetland do?

[kung foo panda]

I am at uni in Edinburgh and there has been alot of argument in the newpapers about the potential benifits and disadvantages of Scottish independence but what would Shetland do? could we not use the same arguments the SNP have been using to make Shetland (and Orkney?) independant and take all the North Sea oil with us? or even stay in the UK? the SNP dont get loads of votes back home so doesnt that mean we like all like being part of Britain?.
The SNP say Scotland should be in control of its own affairs, we are culturally different and "Scotland's oil" is going to the treasury in London and not Edinburgh, but surely that can also apply to us and Scotland.
Could this not have the potential to make us all very rich!!!!!!! surely if corperation tax was lowered enough the oil companies would more their offices here and bring loads of jobs.
Personally i dont want Scotland to leave the UK, and i think we are better off in in the UK.
Just wonderin what folk think?

[Ironwithin]

I agree with what you are saying. The SNP only seem to care about the central belt and western isles, plus seem to like interfering at every opportunity, they may as well be westminister, there is little difference to us.

 

I think if Scotland did go independant, we should then go independant of Scotland. Alex salmon coud not really complain as we would be doing just what the SNP would have done, that would leave them up turd creek losing a lot of the oil revenue.

 

Shetland and also Orkney are distinct from Scotland due to our norse ancestory and geographic location.

[shetlandpeat]

Invent the lib dems?

 

I have always thought of Shetland as a very special place, lovely folk and excellent opportunities.

 

It is a home to me in a way, most of the folk in this world I love are there, overground or under.

 

I personally do not think Shetland, on its own could fend off some of the bigger players in the world, it certainly wont have the capitol to fend them off.

 

To think that the oil receipts will stay in Scotland if they do gain independence is a bit of a pipe dream so to speak.

 

It does all depend on the level of independence.

[hjasga]

Can only laugh at the idea of an independent Shetland.

 

Scotland would struggle enough.

[amno]

Its certainly an interesting one which would realy benefit from a proper opinion poll, i doubt that the majority of people are happy with the status quo but then people never normaly are!

 

As for an independant scotland the SNP certainly arent popular on this forum but how would shetland fair under an independant scotland is something we might never know

 

As for stay with good old blighty well it certainly has its advantages as far as a back up goes they are a big machine which has managed to keep their own currency and units of measurements despite massive pressure from an ever more powerfull EU.

 

Now independant shetland? Dont say it cant be done because in many parts of the world it has been done many island groups in the carribean and elsewhere are independant states some with populations less than ours!

I would however leave oil out of the eqaution because the national oilfield bounderies dran up in the 1960s were based on 2 factors which where the length of coastline adjacent to the oilfields and the proximity of the grids to the shore, now it was purely for the fact that shetland scotland and the uk were all one entity that the british did so well you see! had we been 2 or perhaps 3 seperate states in 1968 then many of the rigs in the current sh"shetland" sector would have been given to norway the magnus and ninian fields are over 100 miles from sullom voe now a small island nation simply would not have oil rights so far from its shores with larger neighbours neerby.

 

Finaly - the following article is strictly tounge in cheek!

 

Citizenship. from the great wikipedia!

 

There are 2 ways to determine if someone is a citizen jus soli (by birth) or jus sanguinis (by blood) however most countries in the 21st century have some combination of both ie born in the country automatic right, not born in country but parents born in country = auto right! but given some of the views on this forum on what constitutes a shetlander you may find that you have to prove up to 10 generations of shetlanders on all family sides to get that all important passport!!!!

so a nice rich happy wee country you might be but dont expect to get a 5 aside team for the world cup when the shetlinkers give out the passports!

[hjasga]

 

Now independant shetland? Dont say it cant be done because in many parts of the world it has been done many island groups in the carribean and elsewhere are independant states some with populations less than ours!

 

Barring a few sunny tax havens, how many have the economic stability we would require to maintain our current standard of living? None, I would wager.

[Ghostrider]

If Scotland became independant, what would Shetland do?

 

Demand more information!

[amno]

you bring the sun and leave the tax dodgin to the torry cabinet

[Kavi Ugl]

I personally feel that this is a matter that needs to be treated with the seriousness it deserves.

 

Shetland is at the end of the road, minus a few oil developments, and this is proven by the Viking Energy and Vattenfall pipe dreams, and by the crunch time that the SIC is facing.

 

Shetland's heart beats from, among other things, fishing but it has been torn out of our hands by the EU, London and Edinburgh. Edinburgh has had countless chances to shout louder about it but has chosen not to.

 

Apparently Sandy Cluness has written an article about this issue(an independant Shetland) in the new edition of Shetland Life.

 

To answer your question, we need to either go for independance ourselves and seek a place within the Nordic Council or go for something else.

 

Staying with the "UK"(whatever that is) is a non-starter because the UK is now a disaster zone and we would be utter fools to "stay" there.

[amno]

Dont bother looking at edinburgh they dont have the power to decide what they want for tea the morns night never mind real issues you realy can be a country of youre own, the doubters say its too small but you're unlikely to be invaded by north korea in that case id imagin the UN may have something to say anyway,

dont look at how the sic is run as an example the're only a county council not a government as long as theres a proper constitution voted on by the people there's no reason why not

[shetlandpeat]

End of what road?

 

If you think the council cost too much at the moment, try turning it into a GOV. The public will have to top up the council tax, as there will be no more money coming from any central GOV as you will be that.

 

You will not make enough from fishing, and you will still need to keep within the EU because or all the treaties and the money that has been spent on EU funded projects. The tax on landings and harbour fees would force vessels to offload elsewhere. You would also loose the generous 5p discount on fuel that is coming your way.

 

It is a dream for a few I think. There is nothing to take seriously as nothing is really happening that would change anything in the near future.

 

Oh, you need to get some doctors etc.

 

Shetland is already in the UK, so therefore, started several generations ago.

 

Personally, I would be more worried about the huge battery next to the fuel stores at the power station, especially with its reputation of catching fire and burning for weeks, there has been thought that it could destroy the power station, I wonder how much in reserves would be needed to cover that tiny emergency?

[amno]

Dont wory about the scaremongerers im not even close to being a shetlander but you can do it never mind that some in the carribean are less than perfect theres no reason why you cant be the model republik of the north sea du keens whit dus capable oh' so geen fort en shah dem doon in westminster dat du can doiy it cause du can an du disny hae tae be telt whits good for dee si tak da power bakk!

[Ghostrider]

End of what road?

 

If you think the council cost too much at the moment, try turning it into a GOV. The public will have to top up the council tax, as there will be no more money coming from any central GOV as you will be that.

 

You will not make enough from fishing, and you will still need to keep within the EU because or all the treaties and the money that has been spent on EU funded projects. The tax on landings and harbour fees would force vessels to offload elsewhere. You would also loose the generous 5p discount on fuel that is coming your way.

 

It is a dream for a few I think. There is nothing to take seriously as nothing is really happening that would change anything in the near future.

 

Oh, you need to get some doctors etc.

 

Shetland is already in the UK, so therefore, started several generations ago.

 

Personally, I would be more worried about the huge battery next to the fuel stores at the power station, especially with its reputation of catching fire and burning for weeks, there has been thought that it could destroy the power station, I wonder how much in reserves would be needed to cover that tiny emergency?

 

With independence comes the rights to the sea and seabed to 200 miles/median, if it doesn't it ain't independence.

 

Those rights can be sold as fixed term licences on Shetland's terms to the highest bidder. In plain language that means every non-Shetland boat who so much as catches an eel in that water owes us.....then there are oil installations, pipelines etc etc..... These people who "own" those at present may have an "agreement" with the current "proprietors", however with independence would come a new "proprietor" (aka. US!) and agreements would need to be re-negotiated ASAP. As an independent nation we would not be obliged to accept pre-existing agreements made in the laws of a by then a "foreign nation" nor would they be enforcable, and we'd be damn fools to accept an independence argeement that made it any other way.

 

Shetland need not remain part of the U.K. as part of an independence settlement, unless we want to. It is a clean slate and start over situation. Doctors and any other "blue light" services, along with military etc can be bought in from neighbouring "friendly" nation(s) under contract....paid for by the fish, oil etc licences revenue.....

 

That is where the lion's share of revenue could and should come from in the first instance. "We" do not necessarily need to do a damn thing, we have significant assets, we let other's have access to them on our terms, for a healthy cut of what they're shifting off us.

 

As for the Hydro's battery, be it as the status quo or as an independent nation, that damn thing is the problem of the power company, not the council or any future Shetland Government which may come to pass at some future time, unless they were godless fools enough to nationalise the local electric.

 

WARNING: Any institutions or individuals using this post for studies, projects, events, or ANY presentational material public or private - You do NOT have my permission to use ANY of it in any form or forum both current and future. If you have or do, it will be considered a serious violation of my privacy and personal property, and may well be subject to legal ramifications.

 

[shetlandpeat]

There would have to be some recompense to the UK, if you think they will just give up the right to the income without any then it is still a dream. The investments made need to have an income.

The companies may not want a new owner, the last time they dealt with Shetland authorities, they were shafted, or so they say. eels will be caught elsewhere.

 

The power station will be nationalised, as a nation, Shetland PLC will need to purchase the whole network to maintain the inependence.

 

There are the social aspect to pay for as well, NHS care, long term sick, pensions, affiliations to international treaties. The Shetland GOV staff will increase.

 

But on the other hand, if you do get given all these things for free, then you could become a tax haven, cheap cigarettes and booze, thousands of folk buying up the housing and producing housing to take advantage.

 

Could possibly kill off the Shetland I know and love and may do the same to many others.

 

The fishing industry, crofting, wool production and farming will just be museum pieces, who needs em when you get free money.

[Ghostrider]

There would have to be some recompense to the UK, if you think they will just give up the right to the income without any then it is still a dream. The investments made need to have an income.

The companies may not want a new owner, the last time they dealt with Shetland authorities, they were shafted, or so they say. eels will be caught elsewhere.

 

Recompense to the UK? For what exactly. The UK as a nation has invested in damn little here, and for the most part it costs them to maintain it. Neither schools, hospitals, roads or airports are any major earner for the Treasury. UK businessess who have invested here of course are a wholly different matter, and of course would almost certainly wish to protect their investments. However to do so they will need to re-negotiate their position, as they made their investments at a time when they wer eprotected by Scottish Law, and UK Law. We as an independent nation need not agreed to honour or recognise scottish Law and UK Law unless we choose to do so. Whether the companies want a new owner or not is irrelevant, they either negotiate new terms with the new prorpietors (us) or, subject to us choosing not to recognise Scottish/UK law, they will not have a legally enforcable right to take possession of their assets located here.

 

With the EU Commission proposing boats are only allowed to fish one week on ever four, I think you might find quite a lot of EU boats, including English and Scots quite happy to pay for a fishing licence, if we had exclusives 100 miles east, 200 north of Flugga and the same west of Foula. It could well be the difference between prospertity and bankruptcy for many of them.

 

The power station will be nationalised, as a nation, Shetland PLC will need to purchase the whole network to maintain the inependence.

 

Why? Presumably SSE make a profit on Gremista, or they'd not be here. Why can't an independent Shetland allow SSE to continue as the supplier if they want to, or let some other generator take over if they don't.

 

Nationalisation only make sense when provision of a service is unprofitable, and likely to always remain so. If Gremista was such a millstone around SSE's neck, I suspect they'd have vanished out the south mouth the minute the bottom line got written in red, and they'd certainly not have so readily paid over Million £3 for an oversized battery lately either.

 

There are the social aspect to pay for as well, NHS care, long term sick, pensions, affiliations to international treaties. The Shetland GOV staff will increase.

 

Yes, and I believe we could afford it if every penny that currently flows in to the Treasury as a result of the oil activity within what would become Shetland water, plus the licence fees to allow non-Shetland boats to fish those same water, all ended up staying here.

 

Could possibly kill off the Shetland I know and love and may do the same to many others.

 

Sorry mate, but that character has been sickly for many a day now, from around 1980 at least. Last noted lying very low hooked up to numerous strange looking machines in an ICU, and not doing very well at all.