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The trouble with Shetland is that the political/ ruling elete are Unionists to the core.I seem to remember that one of the first things that happened after the union of the crowns was the salt tax that destroyed at a stroke shetlands main industry the export of salted fish. This left very many people destitute with no means to make a living.We could also mention the press gangs of the British royal navy who pillaged shetland of her menfolk for generations.Perhaps an apology is long overdue.

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and then the cost that Shetland would need to pay for for theirs,

 

well pete with a 200mile/median line sea border for Shetland and I'll pay it out my pension :lol:

 

Sorry to disappoint but using international precedent, independent Shetland's territorial waters would be a enclaved at approx 24 miles oot.

 

see discussion fae page 24 on and map page 29

 

http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/12/1/505.pdf

 

PS, anyway, ida event of the promised land of an ethnically pure independent Shetland/ForGodsakeVik/Dratsyland soothmoother free zone (or Partition and Shetland bizarrely becoming part of Torie England) the masons would have all the cash and du wid get none IMHO.

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Sorry to disappoint but using international precedent, independent Shetland's territorial waters would be a enclaved at approx 24 miles oot.

 

Did du read da bit whaur it says:

 

This enclaved zone, however, does not have to be limited to 12 nautical miles. Rather, it can be left to the parties or the tribunal to decide the various widths of this zone taking into account other elements such as historic rights or fishing rights.

 

Goes on to say that Orkney and Shetland should not be deprived of mineral deposits off their coasts.

 

200 miles around the Falkland Islands...

 

Emma Edwards, the oil portfolio representative who is responsible for oil on the Islands, said: "The oil belongs to the Falkland Islanders, and the oil does belong to us first.

 

"We will look after our own infrastructure - ensure that we've got the roads, the hospitals, the education that we need, plus reserves so we can keep ourselves going after any oil has gone."

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and then the cost that Shetland would need to pay for for theirs,

 

well pete with a 200mile/median line sea border for Shetland and I'll pay it out my pension :lol:

 

Sorry to disappoint but using international precedent, independent Shetland's territorial waters would be a enclaved at approx 24 miles oot.

 

see discussion fae page 24 on and map page 29

 

http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/12/1/505.pdf

 

PS, anyway, ida event of the promised land of an ethnically pure independent Shetland/ForGodsakeVik/Dratsyland soothmoother free zone (or Partition and Shetland bizarrely becoming part of Torie England) the masons would have all the cash and du wid get none IMHO.

 

And all that theory is applied to us joining with England and apart fae a few english I've no heard anyone in Shetland suggest that is the way we should go, but I'm heard a fair few scoties use the "whit you'd rather be English" bollox at every mention of no wanting anything to do with an independent Scotland.

Yourself being a prime example.

Are you so brainwashed by fat eck that you think we are less able or less deserving of self determination than the scoty.

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I care not for what the Lord's motivation is, if it is useful to 'Shetlands greater good. I also don't think the Sinclair Earls per se attract the same level of disdain as you are identifying, perhaps through the succession. I certainly doubt, however, that any Lairds of similar authority would get a toe-hold in a modern Shetland.

 

Meaning?

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and then the cost that Shetland would need to pay for for theirs,

 

well pete with a 200mile/median line sea border for Shetland and I'll pay it out my pension :lol:

 

Sorry to disappoint but using international precedent, independent Shetland's territorial waters would be a enclaved at approx 24 miles oot.

 

see discussion fae page 24 on and map page 29

 

http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/12/1/505.pdf

 

.

 

And all that theory is applied to us joining with England and apart fae a few english I've no heard anyone in Shetland suggest that is the way we should go, but I'm heard a fair few scoties use the "whit you'd rather be English" bollox at every mention of no wanting anything to do with an independent Scotland.

Yourself being a prime example.

Are you so brainwashed by fat eck that you think we are less able or less deserving of self determination than the scoty.

 

scoty? Weel boy, as I go back at laest 10 generations in Yell, so I'm a pureblood, according ta da racial purity experts on here!

 

The Falkland Islands are

1 a substantial landmass - 4700 sq miles

2 out in the open ocean 300 miles from the nearest continent

3 were uninhabited before British settlement

hence the territorial waters are set using the equidistance principle towards Argentina, and 200miles on all other sides

 

Orkney and Shetland are

1 relatively small islands - Shetland is what, 350 sq miles in area

2 close to the neighbouring landmass - 14 miles from Hoy to Cattaness

3 have a 5000 year history of association with Scotland

4 are consitutionally, part of Scotland, governed by Scots Law (incidentally why does the place insist in voting for Edinburgh Lawyers in the form of Scott, Carmichael and previously Wallace??), part of the Scottish education system (which is why Shetland students don't have to pay £9000 fees), part of the Scottish NHS (which is why it's not being privatised and won't be. Ever)

 

Therefore - the current situation or situation on Scottish Independence is that the territorial waters, based on Shetland being a part of Scotland, is that the equidistance principle applies west to Faroe and east to Norway, and the 200mile limit applies to the open ocean northwards.

 

If Shetland or Shetland/Orkney were to become Independent, or a Crown Dependency of England, it will then become an 'isolated offshore island' and the territorial waters would be defined to the south using the equidistance principle, either between Fair Isle and North Ronaldsay, or between Hoy and Stroma, depending on whether we are talking about Shetland or Shetland/Orkney, and around all other boundaries using the enclave method - approx 20 miles from each island, ness and bordering holm. As per map on the previous link.

 

Yes of course it would be subject to international arbitration, but that is the precedent. I think this is how it works round the Channel Isles - they are 'isolated offshore islands' relative to the rest of England.

 

Do not be fooled by the 'Frank Frazer' map fae the 1970s as that was just British Intelligence propaganda - and did not take account of international law.

 

Good to debate on substantive issues at last

 

I was once tempted by the Shetland Movement in my misguided youth but have come to see that the 'Shetland is not Scottish' political stance is just a British divide and rule ploy not unlike the Carsonite tosh in Ireland 100 years ago. As one poster noted above, it's the inclusion of Rockall that is the give away this time round. The Noble Lords clearly have a deep concern for the political rights of the Rockall islanders (100 scarfs)

 

And the point about the funny handshake brigade is not just being smart, it's a definite and major reason for my reservations about Shetland Independence/Crown Dependency. Shetland's governance at present is an embarrasing shambles - maybe this would improve on self-government. maybe not.

 

Not even slightly brainwashed by Eck! But he does indeed need to eat less pies. I resigned fae SNP in 2003 due ta John Swinney's insufficient oppostion ta Iraq war. And also was at a selection meeting for Annabel Ewing in Callander at wis so boring I nearly died. Rejoined couple years later as the underlying problem of UK total underperformance on every international indicator, and total unreformability, remains unsolved. Google GDP per head, UN human development index for UK, Norway, Iceland, Ireland, Finland, Denmark, Sweden. And see the excellent dissection of 'Britishness' in 'The Enchanted Glass: Britain and it's Monarchy' by Tom Nairn.

 

 

Cheers

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derick you are wrong shetland is not 350qm its 567qm with a pop of around 22000.Now lets compare that with say Jersey 45qm pop 100,000 why i beleive that at 82qm Yell is nearly twice the size of Jersey yet only has a pop of less than 1000.If we look again at the channei islands we see that tiny Guernsay at only 30qm thats about the size of bressay has a pop of 66,000.How do they do it

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If Shetland or Shetland/Orkney were to become Independent, or a Crown Dependency of England,

 

As the 2 examples above are entirely different politicly and legally I fail to see how they can both result in the same settlement of borders.

 

An independent Orkney and Shetland would be entitled to the same rules on borders as any other independent state.

An Orkney and Shetland that is a crown dependency of the UK would be entitled to the same territorial limits as the Faroes (a crown dependency of Denmark) 200 miles or the median line.

After all why look to the other side of the ocean or even the planet when there is an internationally recognised example a mere matter of a few miles away.

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derick you are wrong shetland is not 350qm its 567qm with a pop of around 22000.Now lets compare that with say Jersey 45qm pop 100,000 why i beleive that at 82qm Yell is nearly twice the size of Jersey yet only has a pop of less than 1000.If we look again at the channei islands we see that tiny Guernsay at only 30qm thats about the size of bressay has a pop of 66,000.How do they do it

 

OK re acreage. doesn't invalidate the point on 'isolated offshore island'

 

how do they do it? Tax haven for very wealthy individuals, handy for the fleshpots of London AND BETTER WEATHER!

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If Shetland or Shetland/Orkney were to become Independent, or a Crown Dependency of England,

 

As the 2 examples above are entirely different politicly and legally I fail to see how they can both result in the same settlement of borders.

 

An independent Orkney and Shetland would be entitled to the same rules on borders as any other independent state.

An Orkney and Shetland that is a crown dependency of the UK would be entitled to the same territorial limits as the Faroes (a crown dependency of Denmark) 200 miles or the median line.

After all why look to the other side of the ocean or even the planet when there is an internationally recognised example a mere matter of a few miles away.

 

The international precedent is highly relevant as that is the basis that any abitration would proceed.

 

Given that an Independent Shetland is a non starter, the substantifve real issue is the proposed Partition of Scotland using Crown Dependency or other nonsense.

 

Faeroe is a different situation as it was part of Denmark when the boundaries were drawn up

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Orkney and Shetland are

1 relatively small islands - Shetland is what, 350 sq miles in area

 

Maybe so, but Scotland is fairly tiny too, compared to most other countries.

 

Image from an old book, populations maybe a bit different now, but areas will be the same. What relevance does area have, anyway?

 

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/images/shetla69.jpg

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Orkney and Shetland are

1 relatively small islands - Shetland is what, 350 sq miles in area

What relevance does area have, anyway?

 

The relevance is that Shetland's 'Crown Dependency' EEZ would be calculated from the boundaries, and that is related to size, and particularly size relative to the original country of which Shetland is a county.

 

That's the international precedent.

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