If Scotland became independant, what would Shetland do?

[icepick239]

Sorry - withdrawn - to be typed another day...

[derick]

I have allways thought the Shetland people should be given recognition as a distict people, as due to our genetic make up we are different.

 

 

"And yet today it's possible to believe nationalism can mean something else entirely. It can ignore the false doctrine of "national characteristics" and focus instead on a shared culture; it can turn away from parochialism and forge international links with countries who share our values; it can give up once and for all the host of petty grievances we have held for too long against England and encourage us to take responsibility for our own lives."

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/herald-view/independence-or-not-scotland-has-moved-on.16610141

[Shifte]

Thought you guys might enjoy the latest comic from one of my favourite web series: "Scandinavia and the Rest of the World." - it's written in english by a bloke from Scandinavia, who has become quite popular over there for personifying countries and their general attitudes or stereotypes quite well.

 

http://satwcomic.com/new-nordic

[matlo]

^^^

 

Well, maybe that is the fundamental shift in nationalism - if it's about confidence and the future rather than ethnicity and the past then it has a case to make. There's no doubt that the nationalists have been in control of the agenda for the last few weeks.

 

Did anybody see the debate in Glasgow on the BBC? The most convincing speaker - by far - was Lesley Riddoch, and as far as I know she's not in the SNP but has been very much involved in the Nordic Horizons organisation that seems to be getting a few mentions in the papers. Jim Wallace, it has to be said, was not brilliant.

Interesting to have a look:

 

http://www.nordichorizons.org/

 

As far as Shetland goes there's still the problem of how we fit into the new Scotland that looks increasingly likely to happen after 2014.

For me at least the issues are not so much about the past - where our DNA came from - but about the present and future. We maybe don't need to be separate from Scotland because of our history (though of course it is relevant) but a glance at a map will tell anybody that we ARE separate, and unless towed to the Firth of Forth Shetland will have to deal with that. Priorities have to be different for Shetland because it is where it is and has the resources it has. Policies for the Central Belt, or even the Highlands, are just not going to fit.

 

It's partly back to the confidence thing too - Shetland needs to have the right powers and the will to use them - and I think more local control will bring out the right politicians. In spite of what they say there's been no sign of the Scottish Government delegating any power back to local communities - there's less local control now than there was in the 70s - and if you're a councillor with no real power to decide on policies that matter then it's all too easy to get on with cronyism, doling out cash to dubious causes, etc. More powers = more able politicians, ones who get involved because they're able to make a difference.

 

Why do the Faroese have less in the way of resources than Shetland, double the population (and rising), and a culture and economy that's held together pretty well? Not because they've been waiting to see what Denmark will offer them.

 

It comes down to whether Shetland should be at the centre of its OWN culture and economy or at the forgotten periphery of someone else's. Being at the centre just has to be better.

[matlo]

An anidder thing; maybe a bit far-fetched but bear with me...

 

Just suppose we were to go for Scottish Crown Dependancy status - and there might be advantages for Scotland were that to happen - and we could reach an accommodation with Scotland before the Scottish/UK union is dissolved....

 

Scotland would have to rejoin the EU; most commentators seem to agree that some formal rejoining would have to happen. What would be the status of the new Crown Dependancy of Shetland? (Maybe Orkney in the same situation too.) It's possible for parent states to be in the EU but their dependancies not to be (Denmark/Faroe, Denmark/Greenland - even Germany/Heligoland for God's sake. Well, I think Heligoland is inside the EU but exempted from various rules.) The EU is more flexible than British rule enforcers lead us to believe.

 

What if we then wanted to be exempted from the Common Fisheries Policy - it's becoming an embarrassment to them all anyway. It would suit Shetland - and it would actually suit Scotland too, especially if Scottish fishermen were allowed to buy some licenses for Shetland waters. There's also the threat on the horizon of a common European 'Marine Resources' policy, not just fishing but all marine resources - maybe even including minerals.

 

Just a thought...

[derick]

^^^

 

Did anybody see the debate in Glasgow on the BBC? The most convincing speaker - by far - was Lesley Riddoch, and as far as I know she's not in the SNP but has been very much involved in the Nordic Horizons organisation that seems to be getting a few mentions in the papers. Jim Wallace, it has to be said, was not brilliant.

 

saw it on Iplayer. No Lesley is not in the SNP. Not sure if she supports Independence or not. Wallace was not good - Ian McWhirter was not the only one that noted his vacant response to the guy in the audience who described him as a 'relic'. Harsh but true.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/independence-part-1-how-scotland-has-changed.16607482

 

Policies for the Central Belt, or even the Highlands, are just not going to fit.

 

A free prescription in Sandwick is the same as a free prescription in Stirling. No tertiary education fees ditto. Indeed Shetland has it's own 'central belt' problem vis a vis Lerwick and surrounds, and the outlying areas. The answer incidentally being political parties in the SIC so the isolated outlying independent councillors are not divided and ruled.

 

I canna see how the Highlands and Islands differ that much fae Shetland - similar geography, crofting, incompetent local authority, need for ferries (I see the Western Isles are making a fuss about withdrawal of RET for commercial vehicles - so much for Shetland being 'discriminated against' copyright whinging Fiberals).

 

Shetland should make common cause with the Highlands and Islands, and should be making those links now. There is definite room for a 'northern bloc' in an Independent Scotland.

 

Sorry for being so opinionated. Covenanting ancestors.

[derick]

PS - forget Devo Max. Status Quo or nothing says the delightful Mr Cameron

 

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/politics/no_further_tax_powers_for_scotland_says_david_cameron_1_2084365

 

No, I wasn't joking about the 'delightful' SNP membership has increased by 1,595 (8%) or it had by yesterday since he breenged in. Can't decide if he's doing it deliberately to get rid of us, or if it's just Etonian arrogance!

[Redrobbie99]

Come to think about it david cameron now thats a very scottish name i wonder if he has any scottish ancestors

[George.]

Maybe his mother was keen on a Scottish butcher. They're well known for having the best meat on offer

[derick]

Maybe his mother was keen on a Scottish butcher. They're well known for having the best meat on offer

 

very droll!

 

Once upon a time there was a tiny, tiny chicken named Chicken Little. One day Chicken Little was scratching in the Scottish garden looking rather unsuccessfully for The Positive Case for The Union when something fell on her head. "Oh," cried Chicken Little, "the sky is falling. I must go tell the Queen." So Chicken Little ran and ran, and she met Ruthie Woothie, Rennie Wennie and Johannie Wannie [and various journalistic hacks incl a mad one with a Mugabe obsession] "Where do you travel so fast, Chicken Little?" asked Ruthie Woothie, Rennie Wennie and Johannie Wannie "Ah, three amigos" said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and I must go and tell the Queen" "How do you know that the sky is falling, Chicken Little?" asked the three amigos "I saw it with my eyes, I heard it with my ears, and a bit of it fell on my head," said Chicken Little. Likely a satellite. "We will go with you to the Queen," said the 3 amigos So they ran along together, and they met Foxy Loxy Cammy Wammy. "Where do you travel so fast, Chicken Little?" asked Foxy Loxy Cammy Wammy. "Ah,Foxy Loxy Cammy Wammy." said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and we go to tell the Queen." "Do you know the way to the Queen's house?" asked Foxy Loxy Cammy Wammy - "I went to school with her footman you know". "No," said Chicken Little. "No," said the three amigos. "Haud On," said Chicken Little. "we baith like the horses, and sometimes hae oor tea together. I've been to her hoose," Ignoring this plebbish comment, Foxy Loxy Cammy Wammy sand "Then come with me and I will show you," And just as he was about to lead them into his den to eat them... ...the sky fell on him. "Oh dear," said Chicken Little. "We're too late," said the three amigos. "Poor Foxy Loxy Cammy Wammy," said Ruthie Woothie. "No sense in going to the Queen," said Rennie Wennie. "Nothing to do now but go home," said Johannie Wannie. And they did. And went to New York with their wee blue flag. And lived happily ever after.

[Jowly Eck]

Joined up here after debating with several nats about whose oil it actually is, apparently Shetlands oil is Scotland's oil and that doesn't seem right!

 

Its quite funny how Scottish nationalists turn in to unionists when Shetland is mentioned and the claim of rights just seems to apply to the mainland.

 

I think the Lords offer should be taken up, first because it appeaser to me to be designed just to annoy the snp but second a Crown Dependency or Overseas Territory means your own constitution with total control over your own affairs except foreign policy and defence that get given free of charge, look at the Falkland Isles constitution and you see straight away that all the minerals in the sea bed is there's and there's alone, the Isle Of Man and the Channel Islands have the same deal along with all the other territories and dependency's except Antarctica (no one lives there), use the £ or make your own no one cares!.

 

staying with Scotland means that you get even less control as all things snp involve bringing power to the centre (police/fire/social care to name just this years power grabs) and it means that you wont be autonomous and the oil fund gets diluted between 5 million people instead of the island.

 

I dont think its "English" to be a Crown Dependency or territory its just using the same passport you do now.

 

All the North Sea oil and gas is just 2% of UK revenue so loosing that by giving it to you but not the snp is not that great a loss to the UK but its 30% of the snp's proposed revenue, the snp need it the UK can live without it (England's got Europe's largest shale gas supply anyhow), the offer from the Lord looks a good one as the UK wont get the oil if you are a dependency or territory as none of the other dependences or territories give it away,

 

Staying in Scotland means you are Scotland's and it becomes the snps favourite slogan "its Scotland's oil" when its not its Shetlands and Shetlands sea out to 20 miles and out to 200 miles for the economic area (I think its 200 might be 300), the economic area would be yours not Scotland's as Scotland cant wrap round you since you extend further than Scotland.

[derick]

simply google

jowly eck

or

cynicus

[George.]

Joined up here after debating with several nats about whose oil it actually is, apparently Shetlands oil is Scotland's oil and that doesn't seem right!

 

Its quite funny how Scottish nationalists turn in to unionists when Shetland is mentioned and the claim of rights just seems to apply to the mainland.

 

I think the Lords offer should be taken up, first because it appeaser to me to be designed just to annoy the snp but second a Crown Dependency or Overseas Territory means your own constitution with total control over your own affairs except foreign policy and defence that get given free of charge, look at the Falkland Isles constitution and you see straight away that all the minerals in the sea bed is there's and there's alone, the Isle Of Man and the Channel Islands have the same deal along with all the other territories and dependency's except Antarctica (no one lives there), use the £ or make your own no one cares!.

 

staying with Scotland means that you get even less control as all things snp involve bringing power to the centre (police/fire/social care to name just this years power grabs) and it means that you wont be autonomous and the oil fund gets diluted between 5 million people instead of the island.

 

I dont think its "English" to be a Crown Dependency or territory its just using the same passport you do now.

 

All the North Sea oil and gas is just 2% of UK revenue so loosing that by giving it to you but not the snp is not that great a loss to the UK but its 30% of the snp's proposed revenue, the snp need it the UK can live without it (England's got Europe's largest shale gas supply anyhow), the offer from the Lord looks a good one as the UK wont get the oil if you are a dependency or territory as none of the other dependences or territories give it away,

 

Staying in Scotland means you are Scotland's and it becomes the snps favourite slogan "its Scotland's oil" when its not its Shetlands and Shetlands sea out to 20 miles and out to 200 miles for the economic area (I think its 200 might be 300), the economic area would be yours not Scotland's as Scotland cant wrap round you since you extend further than Scotland.

 

Never believe a word that England comes out with, Eck. They will leach and leach and leach, leaving Shetland with a fishing rod and an old sheep. Mind, they'll have shaved the old sheep too.

[Redrobbie99]

People in shetland and scotland need to realise that if they continue to vote as they did in the past they will get the same result ie wars killing hundreds of thousands of people, economic collapse, selling of most of our gold reserves for a pittance ,giving away our country to the EU etc etc

[Shifte]

We have more chance of stopping war when we have a voice, Robert. At the very least we can avoid contributing to any war we disagree with - which I imagine would be most.

 

I find the concept of a Northern European block pretty inspiring. Scandinavia, Scotland, Ireland and maybe the Baltics could look out for one another. The Scandinavians do a good job of it, I want some of that!