Colin Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Simple really... If someone does something and appears to be "making a few bob" at it,, Everyone else will want a piece of the action. There is also the "traditional" aspect to be considered where people have "traditionally" followed certain activities. Regulating that is a bit like herding cats and, imho, should not be left to self interest groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsy Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 internet back on,scorrie ur a bigger gibbering idot as I thought,ur working to a firm who buy whole crab an keep the claws an dump the backs,no firm can buy any product and dumped 50 %,if you were doing your job rite you wouldent be excepting soft,black spot crab and reporting the offenders.I am not against part timers but a fair crack at the whip for all,we pay £300 a year for what,there to busy trying to ruin the part timer that there dragging the full timer down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damissinlink Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 what does everybody want out o the ssmo?do they want it?what would be better?how do you make it fair for everybody and keep stocks healthy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) internet back on,scorrie ur a bigger gibbering idot as I thought,ur working to a firm who buy whole crab an keep the claws an dump the backs,no firm can buy any product and dumped 50 %,if you were doing your job rite you wouldent be excepting soft,black spot crab and reporting the offenders........ Never did any of that on my watch. You need to speak to the people who are there now to get answers to that. As I pointed out in an earlier post, I left over a year ago. Good to see your usual low standard of ill-informed and childlike post content is being maintained. Goodbye. Edited February 6, 2016 by Scorrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Redsain Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 what does everybody want out o the ssmo?do they want it?what would be better?how do you make it fair for everybody and keep stocks healthy? what does everybody want out o the ssmo? -- Scrap it. do they want it? -- No. what would be better? No SSMO. how do you make it fair for everybody and keep stocks healthy? Gear restrictions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trowie246 Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Don't know a lot about this subject but I try to keep up with local issues and I've been reading this thread with interest so here are a few observations. Nobody likes an organisation that restricts your activities but it is tolerated by the vast majority because people understand that there is some sort of regulatory body needed. My understanding was that 25 people turned up at a meeting held at the Tingwall hall but only 6 were licence holders. I think there are currently over 90 licence holders in Shetland so this was a tiny majority of people who thought the SSMO should be dissolved. As has been said before many other industries are also a closed shop - white fishing, salmon and mussel industries to name a few. I don't hear many people complaining that they can't do a nice little side line in growing mussels but the fact is that they can't because all the suitable sites in Shetland have been bought up. Orkney has been mentioned a few times in comparison but the inshore fishing in Orkney is nothing like in Shetland - they have far more suitable grounds and that is why they have more boats. The SSMO is far from perfect and I don't suppose anyone on the Committee would say that it is. The simple fact is that you will never please everyone. On saying that I could see how things might be tightened up and improved - for example, if the vast majority of boats is part-time you could lower the max number of creels/dregs in water per boat and create more licences to the same number, therefore giving more folk a chance at it. Boats licences would need to be revoked far more quickly the at present - someone here has not landed in years and there licence has just been revoked recently. Lots of things could be looked at but at the end of the day it needs to be policed in some way and that is why the SSMO is needed. I hear the velvet fishery is pretty poor now around Scalloway and Whalsay as it is, fishermen themselves need to taking some responsibility and asking themselves why that might be and not just blaming the SSMO or others. Finally, I would just like to say that I read the letter in the paper slating Chairman Ian Walterson and thought it was a wholly inappropriate and personal attack on him and after speaking to someone on the Committee to ascertain if there was a grain of truth in what was being said I was told that he had found him to be fair and open at meetings with one vote the same as the rest of the men there, although as Chair he would have the casting vote. I think people who know Ian know that the person who wrote that letter was spaekin bruk. damissinlink 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Redsain Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Some good points there trowie246. As far as a lack of ssmo permit holders attending the meeting goes, I would say that the reason for that is they dont want anyone else to get a permit.Most ssmo permit holders are VERY happy to have it as a closed shop. They want it all to themselves. You mention the other industries that are "closed shop" this is incorrect.Take the white fish as an example. there is nothing to stop anyone going out and buying a boat and quota - it will take a serious investment but it can be done.Unlike the ssmo permit which is just not being given to applcants. I am not so familiar with the salmon and mussel sites, but I would think again that it would be possibile to set up business, there is no "local permit" required that is being withheld like the ssmo. I think you would find sites if you wanted. but you would not find a commitee who tell you NO! I agree Orkney has better inshore grounds and more boats, but the point is if somebody there wanted or needed to get a boat they could.but here because of the state of the ssmo you cant!ssmo permit holders favourite saying when defending the permits is " you cant just have a free for all, it will destroy the fishing"Orkney has no permits the rest of the UK have no permits, is that a "free for all"? if so it seems to work just fine? Some good ideas on reducing individual effort and sharing it with more people, no reason why that cant be done, I think that is a very good idea.But, as for the policing that is a very difficult area. The Chairman? I have no issue with Ian personally but in my opinion The Chairman and commitee should have changed on a regular basis, I dont think it does to have the same people all the time? maybe if they had changed around yearly or bi-annualy or whatever things would not have got to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damissinlink Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 what does everybody want out o the ssmo?do they want it?what would be better?how do you make it fair for everybody and keep stocks healthy? what does everybody want out o the ssmo? -- Scrap it. do they want it? -- No. what would be better? No SSMO. how do you make it fair for everybody and keep stocks healthy? Gear restrictions? how can you have gear restrictions if you dont have a managment organisation? who is going to implament the rules? far better to have the ssmo making rules to try and help stocks than have marine scotland etc trying to close big areas of fishing ground for no apparent reason, which would have happened if the ssmo wasnt here. ps well said trowie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 You mention the other industries that are "closed shop" this is incorrect.Take the white fish as an example. there is nothing to stop anyone going out and buying a boat and quota - it will take a serious investment but it can be done.Unlike the ssmo permit which is just not being given to applcants. Why can't someone wanting a shellfish boat do the same, don't any existing permit holders retire, die, go bust or whatever and boats and licences become available that way? Or are you saying that these licences are granted to an individual, are non-transferrable, and if a holder wishes to cease being a licence holder, the only way to do it is to hand it back to the committee who will decide whether they're going to issue it again, and to whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damissinlink Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Baron Redsain why do you keep comparing everything to orkney, is it just crabs your intrested in? its two completely differant places, they have a lot of crab and not a lot of scallops,the isle of man has its own licence scheme and rules, why have you no spoken about that, i have not heard one person with a ssmo permit say they dont want anymore boats in, if stock levels arent geat why would anybody in their right mind want to buy a boat to put more effort on that, if stock was good there would be no reason not to give out permits, stocks could be down for many reasons, so how does handing out permits help this? how would a free for all help this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Redsain Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 You mention the other industries that are "closed shop" this is incorrect.Take the white fish as an example. there is nothing to stop anyone going out and buying a boat and quota - it will take a serious investment but it can be done.Unlike the ssmo permit which is just not being given to applcants. Why can't someone wanting a shellfish boat do the same, don't any existing permit holders retire, die, go bust or whatever and boats and licences become available that way? Or are you saying that these licences are granted to an individual, are non-transferrable, and if a holder wishes to cease being a licence holder, the only way to do it is to hand it back to the committee who will decide whether they're going to issue it again, and to whom? Yes Ghostrider you have hit the nail on the head. Over the years since the ssmo introduced permits there have been cases where the permit holder has died and the permit was taken away, even though there were Sons wishing to keep it, in this case they had to sell the boat as it was unviable without the permit.I understand something has now been changed regarding this problem, but that is little consolation to those who had to sell their boat.Many permits have been handed in over the years as well, due to retirement or many other reasons, I have heard of more than one who said when they handed it in that they might want it back someday and were told that would be no problem, yet now they have asked and been refused. Others have said that they hoped the committee saw fit to reissue their permit to someone who wanted one and not just scrap it, yet that is exactly what happens it gets swallowed up.There are also permits that are held onto by people yet they never fish. Can’t blame them really because they are afraid to give them up knowing that they would never get the permit back!A loophole does exist where a permit holder can sell their boat to somebody who has no permit, the new owner becomes a shareholder in the boat first then after a time the old owner sells his share leaving the new person with the permit.When the ssmo was introduced it was said that a permit would never have any ££ value and it would not be something that could be sold, clearly this is not the case. I do not blame the persons who have taken advantage of this loophole after all how else will they ever get a permit? papsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damissinlink Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 If somebody has s permit they can have somebody else named on the permit like a son or nephew etc, so if the permit holder passes away that permit can be transferred, I have heard of people buying boats and keeping the original owner on the permit with a share and not even trying to buy the boat and getting the permit transferred 100% into there name, if you go through the proper channels the ssmo should have no objection to it if no more fishing effort or the original owner wants to another permit, as I understand it!!When the ssmo was started anybody who wanted a licence got one, because this is what the government wanted, nothing was ever said about keeping the same quantity of licences for ever, it was supposedly started to help stocks and fishing effort and fishermen were fed up of the boom and bust times, for instance if there was 120 permits but as boats went out of the fleet and stock levels weren't at s sustainable level no permits would be handed out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Redsain Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Baron Redsain why do you keep comparing everything to orkney, is it just crabs your intrested in? its two completely differant places, they have a lot of crab and not a lot of scallops,the isle of man has its own licence scheme and rules, why have you no spoken about that, i have not heard one person with a ssmo permit say they dont want anymore boats in, if stock levels arent geat why would anybody in their right mind want to buy a boat to put more effort on that, if stock was good there would be no reason not to give out permits, stocks could be down for many reasons, so how does handing out permits help this? how would a free for all help this Baron Redsain why do you keep comparing everything to orkney, is it just crabs your intrested in? its two completely differant places, they have a lot of crab and not a lot of scallops,the isle of man has its own licence scheme and rules, why have you no spoken about that, i have not heard one person with a ssmo permit say they dont want anymore boats in, if stock levels arent geat why would anybody in their right mind want to buy a boat to put more effort on that, if stock was good there would be no reason not to give out permits, stocks could be down for many reasons, so how does handing out permits help this? how would a free for all help thisHi damissinlinkI think you are confused? I have only mentioned Orkney the once?Don’t know anything about the Isle of man licence scheme, But I have just done a google search and find this;The price of a licence to fish in the Isle of Man's territorial sea for the period 01 April 2014 – 31 March 2017 is currently £457. Cheques should be made payable to Isle of man Government and have the vessel name written clearly on the back. Payment should be included with the application.So as you can see it is possible to get one not like here!You are absolutely right, why would anybody want to buy a boat and go fishing if there was nothing to catch? Therefore do we really need permits? It managed here for years without it, and is managing in other areas without it today?I would say stocks are good, and yet they still don’t issue permits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsy Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 trowie 246,for some one who says they don't no much about it you seem to no a little,just to help you out there was 9 permit holders,3 apoliges and a shellfish buyer who predicted the brown crab was about to close unless some action was taking at the meeting. Scorrie am sorry you got the sack,but as you said goodbye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Scorrie am sorry you got the sack,but as you said goodbye Ah, Papsy, my little Master Mariner. It's worth coming back to you just to say this: Wrong again. Maybe you're thinking of someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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