33 Million of Cost/Savings Per Annum

[Muppet]

As we know, a council is not a private employer. If the terms and coditions dictate a vehicle.

 

Why should 'Public' employees expect to be treated any differently from the rest?

Plenty of private employers require their staff to use company vehicles. They do not, in my experience, provide a vehicle for employees to commute to and from their place of work.

Furthermore, if they were to do so, HMRC wold want to know as said vehicle then becomes a 'benefit' and the employee is required to pay tax on it's usage.

Can of worms?

 

That's not strictly true. I see quite a lot of private comany vans parked outside the drivers homes overnight.

 

And the taxable benefit on a van used solely for commuting is zero.

[piggywiggie]

(Do we really need so many buses just serving town throughout the day?).

 

Wrong place to take a pop at the bus companies. Anyway, I think that you are wrong on this point as there is only 1 bus serving Lerwick through the day. Separate thread anyone?

 

I'm sure the town bus is two Separate busses. One goes one direction on the half (quoys direction)he and the other Goes the other direction on the hour(Stanley hill direction)

A good few people use the bus as almost like a lifeline. Like elderly folk. I use the bus all the time too even though I can supposedly drive! So

If the bus times were cut/changed it would make transport for a good part of the Lerwick population a hell o A lot more difficult!

 

I'm all for car sharing etc so if council did build car parks etc for staff to take their cars rather than using vans etc all is well and good. Hen there is the maintenance for the car parks etc. how many claims against the council would there be if it was not maintained correctly

And someone was injured!

[shetlandpeat]

^^ If an employee uses a van containing any equipment they are not trained to use, firstly common sense dictates that that employee cannot be expected to carry out the task which requires that piece of equipment to be used, ergo, somebody sent out the wrong guy to the wrong job. Secondly, should a responsible employer not have a H&S policy in operation where it forms part of an empoyees terms and conditions, that they are not permitted to undertake tasks/use equipment they are not fully conversant with and adequately trained in the use of?

 

 

I guess we all know that should happen, and does. The suggestion was not that I use the equipment on the vehicle. You may be unaware, but you do not need to have a ticket to operate a M.E.W.P. to actually drive one, but they can still be used for transport and/or transporting of goods. Also, handy if your vehicle breaks down.

So, if an employee has a licence to drive such a vehicle then they can legally drive said vehicle.

To say that some one has sent someone on a wrong job is the most extreme and does not really happen. The council, well all councils have policies in place.

So, your point that someone cannot drive a M.E.W.P. unless they have training on said M.E.W.P. is wrong no matter what the equipment on the van is.

[Colin]

I'm sure the town bus is two Separate busses. One goes one direction on the half (quoys direction)he and the other Goes the other direction on the hour(Stanley hill direction)

 

No, it's 1 bus. It runs the North route (Staney Hill) on the hour and the South route (Quoys etc) on the half hour.

 

The only time there are 2 buses is at lunch time.

[unlinkedstudent]

As we know, a council is not a private employer. If the terms and coditions dictate a vehicle. That is it. As council employees are always the easy target when cuts happen, I wonder how many of the general public think twice about ringing a council to do a task that was once done by the residents in the form of a lengthsman or similar.

I wonder what the council worker has done to be subjected to this sort od sustained attack, as with any public worker. They do not get as well paid. I can personally vouch for that. The trouble with constantly attacking the public servants you may need to wipe your grannies bum, say, is generally the good guys get let go. Lower the wage, make it less atractive but tell folk the have to be happy or there is the door will not attract the best candidate. They could be like Tesco and take on J.S.A. claimants to work for free on the night shift. Happily, some large employers such as TKMax have opted out of this new slavery. There arre far bigger savings to be had. Firstly, folk have to be honest about paying tax. The last thing you will need is council officers setting themselves up as companies in ordr to avoid tax with the renumeration they get which seems to be the norm in London. Before subjecting your peers to punative measures due to some sort of perverted need to see the wee guy take the brunt of the situation we are told we are inperhaps more should get involved with the community spirit you so desperatly want.

 

SP, I have worked in both the public and private sectors during my working life. GONE are the days when many in the private sector earn more than their counterparts in the public sector. For example:-

 

Sick pay on top of SSP in private sector - zero

 

Flexitime in private sector - not many

 

Statutory entitlement to holidays - basic entitlement in private sector, no additional days for length of service.

 

Pension in private sector - don't make me laugh, non-existent (you organise your own).

 

Larger LAs also have subsidised staff canteens - now unless you work in a huge American bank in the City of London, I've personally seen a massive decline in such facilities within the private sector; oops, and private sector workers don't tend to get the good old fashioned lunch vouchers any more either.

 

Pay review every year/every few years - again, I know people in the private sector who haven't had a pay rise in over FIVE years.

 

Please don't say electricians/plumbers earn more - I've lost count of the friends I have in the private sector who have either been laid off in the last three years or have gone on a 2 day week. Face facts SP, Local Authorities are there to provide BEST VALUE to their customers, namely the local community and Council Tax payers. Would you rather cuts across the board were made or have a larger number of people laid off?

 

I'm not having a go at public sector workers; I'm having a go at the management. Now I hadn't mentioned care workers but as you mentioned bottom wiping, then how come in a private care home in S{by the way, do you realise I tried to swear here?}horpe (where my mum resides) they earn less than £6 per hour and home helps don't fair much better but up here the SIC pays them over £8.65 per hour? Is it a Scottish Government thing that has set the rates? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they're not worth £8.65 per hour but why are the SIC paying above the going market rates?

 

By all means have the likes of certain road maintenance and snow ploughs parked outside workers' homes (How the hell can we expect snow to be cleared if they're not?) but re the other van drivers, just what percentage of them live in Lerwick/near the depot(s)? Housing Officers use vehicles when out on Council business (Granted, they can claim a mileage) but they have to drive to work and meet the cost out of their own pocket.

 

Re folk being honest about tax - me thinks you'll find that HMRC expects a certain amount of co-operation from employers these days too.

 

Cheers PW and Colin regarding the bus information.

 

Oh, and regarding the Christmas trees - are they referring to 3 Christmas trees or does the figure include Christmas trees in Council offices, nursing homes, etc.? I know when I worked for the London Borough of Hackney and also the London Borough of Barking & Dagenham, apart from the Town Halls if you wanted Christmas decorations up, you had to purchase them yourself. Tea/coffee was paid for by the staff. Christmas parties were also funded by the staff.

 

Edit: Paid overtime in private sector - you either get time in lieu if you work in an office or just basic time; you most certainly don't get time and a half or double time.

[Ghostrider]

As we know, a council is not a private employer. If the terms and coditions dictate a vehicle. That is it. As council employees are always the easy target when cuts happen, I wonder how many of the general public think twice about ringing a council to do a task that was once done by the residents in the form of a lengthsman or similar.

I wonder what the council worker has done to be subjected to this sort od sustained attack, as with any public worker. They do not get as well paid. I can personally vouch for that. The trouble with constantly attacking the public servants you may need to wipe your grannies bum, say, is generally the good guys get let go. Lower the wage, make it less atractive but tell folk the have to be happy or there is the door will not attract the best candidate

 

Short reply, as thats all time permits right now. I am not attacking the "public inteface" level of council employees, nor did I have any intent to. They do a good job, and are only "following orders". If I'm attacking anything, its at a management level, and at a policy level.

 

Public service has a long standing reputation for masses of red tape and generating reams of paperwork, because someone somewhere thought "it would be a good idea to record that", and "because they can", which would have been dismissed out of hand as not cost effective in the private sector. We can no longer afford to finance such habits at the cost of actual service delivery, which would you rather have services at their current level with the bare minimum of admin to make them function done, or everything in triplicate at every level, but services cut to pay for it, that is where we're at? If the private sector can function and be accountable when only carrying a far smaller admin load, why can't public service do the same.

 

While I don't necessarily begrudge public service manual employees every penny they do get, as many are not on brilliant money, and do some very mucky jobs, I can't help but question how it can be justified to pay them so much more than people doing the self same job in the private sector. At a time when the public purse was bouyant and it could be afforded, fine, all good to those who were lucky enough to have the jobs where they got it, but the public purse is no longer so, we can no longer afford to be so generous.

 

I am led to believe social care workers in private nursing homes can expect to earn around minimum wage for a little over, yet those jobs were being advertised with the council at wages ranging from 33-66% more than that some time ago. Yes, I know minimum wage is poor for spending the day wiping drool off people, and changing adult nappies, but if thats all the public purse can afford, do we have a choice? The alternative, to me seems much worse, insofar as to maintain the higher wage levels to staff, cuts will have to be made elsewhere, which very likely could include fewer staff doing more work, in which case the standard of care can only eventually deteriorate, or numbers of beds available in such homes are reduced, leading to people who would really benefit from being in them not being able to get a place, and having to sit at home in their drool or soiled nappy waiting for their home help to arrive, or a friend or relative to take pity on them.

 

Perhaps I am misguided, but I would prefer to see the maximum number of spaces made available in such care facilities, and an adequate staff in place to run them, even if the pay is poor, than have better paid but overworked staff, or places restricted, and folk who really needed 24/7 attention being sidelined instead in their own homes and left waiting in whatever state they've gotten in to, perhaps numerous hours, until they were due their next call from a visiting carer.

[paulb]

paid over time in the public sector whats that. the council folks may get overtime but in the 5 years the wife has worked for the nhs she has had paid overtime 3 times. she often works a good hour extra each shift missing out on her unpaid meals and having to top her training which has to be done on her days off. with the cuts she is heading for a 20% pay cut by the end of next year.

 

any decent lecky in london should have had loads of work over the last 7 years.

[unlinkedstudent]

"public interface" level of council employees, nor did I have any intent to. They do a good job, and are only "following orders". If I'm attacking anything, it's at a management level, and at a policy level. ...

 

Ghostie, I told Ya once I told Ya twice - use Ya spellchecker! (Gets in with corrections before someone else does and can't be bothered to check the rest). Be round later.

 

Makes note in Outlook not to employ Ghostie as a proofreader.

[Frankie]

Public and private sector average earnings 2010

All employees – mean

Annual pay – Public sector gross £25,892

Annual pay – Private sector gross £27,195

[Ironwithin]

For a lot of posts in the Council they do not get paid as much as many other Local Authorities, it seems to be a myth that a lot of people think that they are paid more and have better conditions when in a lot of cases that is wrong.

The people doing the reviews should compaire the SIC workers against the rest of Scotland as they are using an excuse for cuts to the SIC workforce/conditions on hersey at the moment, they need hard facts to back them up.

[unlinkedstudent]

paid over time in the public sector whats that. the council folks may get overtime but in the 5 years the wife has worked for the nhs she has had paid overtime 3 times. she often works a good hour extra each shift missing out on her unpaid meals and having to top her training which has to be done on her days off. with the cuts she is heading for a 20% pay cut by the end of next year.

 

any decent lecky in london should have had loads of work over the last 7 years.

 

Training in private sector - not all employers provide this. If you want to increase your chances of a better paid job, you pay for it yourself and do night school or OU.

 

Electricians - I'm referring to friends in Cambs, Oxford and Reading; Plumber in Wales.

 

In addition, many Secretaries have been made redundant in large City firms as the work is now outsourced to either India or South Africa. Previously, you could have say 5 or 6 secretaries working for say 15 fee earners. Now you have say 2 and they check the work done by peeps in India or South Africa. Trainee Solicitors are taken on but must be able to touch type and do their own edits. Several NHS Trusts/PCTs and LAs are following this trend and outsourcing their work abroad.

[shetlandpeat]

Paul has got it there. When I was in Traffic Management privately, I was on over £12 per hour, I had time and a half and double time, I also paid little tax as I was self employed.

Now, I am on just over £8 an hour, time and a third and time and a half, my take home pay with a little extra o/t is half.

I start at 07.45 but get there at 7ish to prep and work out plans, I finish at 4 but leave around 4.15.

My manager does 12 hour days but is paid for 8.

 

It is about dedication to others rather than the self. If you want to start the clamp down, you will loose the extra or pay for it.

 

As for red tape, the Conservative Club near me cut some red tape, a guy is now in the morgue after falling off a ladder, just an example.

The red tape does however show how your money is being spent, to make sure it is being spent in the correct manner and on the right thing. I does get abused, I find it difficult to see how cutting the tape of redness and noe rejigging it will help.

 

As far as the difference in pay conditions, what it shows is the private sector is cutting away conditions that were fought for by those who were once oppressed. It is part of our social history. I am not saying it is right, but you do also have to keep in mind that many folk are multi skilled and can do a variety of tasks. This is due to the cutbacks. I have many roles and can fill many others, for your money you have someone who can drive a gritter, lay tarmac, lay kerbs, install streetlights, use cable identification tools, read and understand stat plans, make accidents safe, installs new lanterns, drive and operate a M.E.W.P. drive and operate a 22 T mobile lorry crane and clamshell, install traffic management of all types, save folks lives with first aid, sweeps the yard, recycles and rebuilds lamps, installs the most recent intelligent units and links them with remote control, delivery driver, second man, banksman, G38 operative, public liason, drive a loadall, completes paperwork and is punctual. all that for less than I was getting for doing just one job in the private sector.

Management here are being cut, it is too heavy in more ways than one, sadly that has caused internal battles and the job is not being done properly.

The public sector has changed quite a bit over the last 3 years, unrecognisable in some instances. You are lucky that you as an authority still have control. If you look at the mess that is Liverpool One Connect and the additional rules and regs that are being installed there to suit BT, who with the merger with Liverpool Council is now the largest company in the UK.

 

It should not be about profits, as you say V.F.M. You seem however to only measure that in cost alone, and not the smile and security someone who is housebound has and feels. Quite cold really.

 

If Auxiliary nurses ore on less than £6 an hour, it could be their age, otherwise the home your Mam is in is breaking the law.

 

A living wage has been set at £8,01 an hour in many places. Oxford City Council have proved you can do this and apply it to contractors and still deliver.

 

Self employment comes with risks, that is a choice, as is taking a low wage and hoping for job security and maybe a five grand pension a year (AV Pension for a labourer).

 

You have to be careful how you cut management, this is always done at initial cost, to the service and cash wise.

 

As ever here, no real substantive answers, no one saying, a lengthsman?

 

Oh, hands up who goes to council meetings.

 

Also, who writes to them before posting here?

[paulb]

if it can be done cheaper in an other country then thats good. the nhs councils are there to provide care or services not jobs for office workers.

 

the pay for an untrained care assistant is a whole lot better than a care assistant in the nhs. a person with an nvq 2 or 3 earns more than a staff nurse.

[paulb]

our esteemed smp was at the naf centre today. i was really temped to say what i felt about him and his parties behaviour. going to an award event when half or more have lost loads to there cut in ema. he made me feel sick while he stood there chatting to the bigwigs.

[unlinkedstudent]

Paul has got it there. When I was in Traffic Management privately, I was on over £12 per hour, I had time and a half and double time, I also paid little tax as I was self employed.

Now, I am on just over £8 an hour, time and a third and time and a half, my take home pay with a little extra o/t is half.

...

 

If Auxiliary nurses ore on less than £6 an hour, it could be their age, otherwise the home your Mam is in is breaking the law. ...

 

But how many years ago were you in Traffic Management and what is the private equivalent now? I'm also factoring in other benefits such as paid sick leave in addition to SSP, holidays, flexitime working, pension and the like.

 

I was referring to care workers; mum is in a care home and not a nursing home.