Gollywogs - is this guy for real?.

[JohanofNess]

Really, though, don't accuse me of being out of my element when you appear to be having such difficulty with basic reading comprehension.

Don't make me get ShetlandPeat down here to defend folks who don't read so good, tis a forum for all. I got what you were saying you just don't like the responses, it's quite common on Shetlink. One question on the above, are you being ironic?.

 

The Little Britain argument came about as "yeah well why does nobody complain about this?" insinuating that it is homophobic, which it isn't. If Scorrie wasn't making that link, he might as well have asked why nobody complains the Teletubbies are homophobic/racist/sexist.

It's been explained how a little britain sketch could be perceived as homophobic as it doesn't suit your agenda to see it then you make no attempt to make the connection. BTW everyone knows the teletubbies are subliminal marketing for devonshire custard and not homophobic (they are racist though).

 

I suggest instead of jumping in two footed with condescension and silly images you actually read what's being typed.

You being ironic now or continuing with the obtuse approach, or is there a hint of sarcasm mixed with irony?. How very dare you calling Walter silly, he fought in nam.

[unlinkedstudent]

GR, I am in total agreement with your brilliant posts on this thread. The one about videoing oneself on some holm could be developed further. ... For example, the lovely coloured Beyonce is black. ...

FGS, sssh, you'll give Ghostie a heart attack by bringing back memories of moi, in a moment of madness, singing along and (attempting) to dance to Beyonce on the radio, "Single Ladies (... put a ring on it)".

[JohanofNess]

FGS, sssh, you'll give Ghostie a heart attack by bringing back memories of moi, in a moment of madness, singing along and (attempting) to dance to Beyonce on the radio, "Single Ladies (... put a ring on it)".

I never had GR down as someone who would listen to a station that plays Beyonce

[unlinkedstudent]

 

"But are you still petitioning for the golliwogs to be withdrawn from sale? Whilst I thank you for your reply, I can't help but note with interest that you appear to have glossed over what I was taught concerning cultural racism and how it is now regarded as extremely offensive to speak on behalf of those you believe have been affected. Granted, you do say that the person you quoted anon. asked you to withdraw the letter.

Thanks for the reply. I am no expert in issues of race equality. The only training I have had was via Gillian Neish http://www.neishtraining.com/diversity_workshops.htm

 

One of the key messages I took from her workshops was the importance of not "going along to get along" i.e. as individuals if we don't challenge what we experience, then nothing will ever change. Its much easier to say nothing, and believe me I wish I had right now, and if I am wrong to say what I have said, I am sorry. I saw something that I thought had been consigned to history and chose to comment on it. Whether or not I withdraw the petition, I honestly don't know. The fact that this much discussion has ensued as a result of it is probably much more important than anything such a small petition could achieve. I reacted quickly and personally after seeing something and perhaps, on reflection, should have thought more carefully about it. The subsequent letter about it was prompted by some of the comments others made and agreed to share. ...

 

Hey, I'm no expert either in issues of race equality - just because I did an Open University module in Social Policy which had a section on diversity and then later had to do an assignment on an MA Women's Studies course that concerned feminist movements worldwide, doesn't make me an expert either.

 

What concerns me, however, is how easy it is to be swayed and/or dictated to as to what is right. I never said I agreed with what my tutors taught me; I never said I agreed with the arguments put forward by the academics whose theories were being debated.

 

My purpose of asking if you intended to withdraw the online petition (which, incidentally, doesn't really make it clear that you are objecting to the museum display or whether you are just referring to the sale and display of goods with the gollywog image on them) whereby you are asking the SIC Convenor and another SIC bod to take such action is this: If, on the one hand, your anon. friend asked you to withdraw the letter, whilst I hate to assume, is it not a fair assumption that for the same reason they wouldn't want you speaking on their behalf via the petition?

 

Okay, so you find the sale of gollywogs offensive and started the petition - but have you really thought about the consequences if the SIC see the online petition and consider your request? I don't have the time right now but I'm pretty damn certain there is legislation in place that Local Authorities have to follow concerning promoting racial harmony (or words to that effect) and powers to prevent disharmony. Where the hell would it end?

 

Hell, the national press read such online petitions and look how they balls things up:-

 

Somebody mentioned baa baa black sheep being banned or not banned. What happened in Hackney was that a private nursery decided to ban it, not a council-run one. However, the Leader of Hackney Council voiced his support for such a ban. Before you know it, the likes of The Sun and other publications spouted from the print that Hackney Council had banned it.

 

Would you like the national press to do the same re Shetland and gollywogs?

 

Hampshire Council were mentioned in the press and online regarding their museum display of Robertson's gollywogs. They had received no complaints but were forced to reconsider keeping the display and decided that if they received any complaints then, and only then, would they withdraw it. Incidentally, the gollywog is no longer on marmalade jars, not because the manufacturer deemed it to be racist but because many of the younger generation were unfamiliar with it.

 

Oh, and the history of the gollywog - some say it comes from Eygpt; something along the lines of "Golly" coming from "Ghuls" (meaning Ghost - steady now Ghostie) and "wog" coming from the arm bands the Egyptians people employed by the Government wore (Workers on Government Service) and that it was their children that had the dolls for toys. So Ghuliwogs became gollywogs/golliwogs.

 

So whilst Scorrie says "... I wouldn't want you to feel you are being howled down by a couple of brainless numpties on an insignificant backwater of the internet.", given that the press do research on Google and your petition is on a relatively well-known online site, I would beg to differ that Shetlink is hosted on "an insignificant backwater of the internet". Incidentally Scorrie, I had a brain scan some years ago and apparently I do possess a brain, so contrary to popular belief, I am not, in fact, brainless.

 

Yes, we all make rash decisions at time and it saddens me that you been unable to sleep and as Scorrie said, you have the ability to challenge but you don't have to take up every challenge. That said, I don't mean to be appearing to persuade you what to do but merely wondered if you had considered the wider implications of your actions.

[Redrobbie99]

This debate reminds me of a story in the press last year when a women was charged for racially aggravated harassment after a golly was spotted in the front window of her home.

[Kavi Ugl]

I will make this my final comment. I would be saddened if stevejack3 was literally loosing sleep over this debate because whilst I feel he has made a wrong call I would never wish anybody any ill.

 

Whether there is an underlying racism problem in Shetland I don't know but I'm certainly not aware of anything.

 

The fact remains that for 99% of Shetlanders the Gollywog is nothing more than a little character from the marmalade jars and a little doll.

 

99% of Shetlanders probably have no deep knowledge of, or interest in, the racial history or background of them. And even if they do, don't see the sale of a few Gollywogs in a little shop as any great problem. That's not ignorance, just a bit of common sense in understanding that there is no racial connection or conotation to it in Shetland.

 

If some people in the world outwith Shetland and the 40 signaturies within Shetland can't grasp that then that's their problem.

[JohanofNess]

If some people in the world outwith Shetland and the 40 signaturies within Shetland can't grasp that then that's their problem.

 

A good chunk of them (when I last saw the petition) were from outside Shetland which for me makes the petition a little less weighty.

[unlinkedstudent]

FGS, sssh, you'll give Ghostie a heart attack by bringing back memories of moi, in a moment of madness, singing along and (attempting) to dance to Beyonce on the radio, "Single Ladies (... put a ring on it)".

 

I never had GR down as someone who would listen to a station that plays Beyonce

 

Moi had relocated the radio, not Him. I can't remember if it was Radio 1, 2 or SIBC. He did, however, turn a whiter shade of pale, followed by the reddening of His cheeks as His gob spluttered out "wha, wha, wha, what the {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'} is THAT you're listening to?", etc. Needless to say, I haven't made the same mistake again ... well, apart from Abba (oops, they had a Golliwog track)!

[Ghostrider]

FGS, sssh, you'll give Ghostie a heart attack by bringing back memories of moi, in a moment of madness, singing along and (attempting) to dance to Beyonce on the radio, "Single Ladies (... put a ring on it)".

 

I never had GR down as someone who would listen to a station that plays Beyonce

 

I wasn't, I don't. It was 'er, when I wasn't keeping an eye on what trouble she was getting up to for a few minutes.

[as]

 

Saying that, as I had offended them, I should be kicked off Shetland, as happened on a different forum, is slightly sinister however given the history of "send them back where they came from."

 

Steve

 

I think the above illustrates that Steve has lost more than just sleep over this.

What does it say about Shetland's population if a guy who starts a petition suffers abuse as a result, particularly given the fact the petition was related to racism? It says to me quite clearly that rascism does indeed exist on Shetland! I find this quite appaling and after having spoken to a number of people about this case it becomes more and more clear that a lot of people feel the same way, but out of fear of reprisals are not willing to voice their opinion publicly. Is this what Shetland/ Shetlink has become? A place where people are too afraid to speak their minds, because of the bully actions of a few? I am disgusted! And ashamed.

 

And I really would like the Mods to take a look at the way Shetlink is run. This forum is the first port of call for a lot of tourists, it is their first taste of the isles. I think Shetlink gives Shetland a bad name.

[unlinkedstudent]

I wasn't, I don't. It was 'er, when I wasn't keeping an eye on what trouble she was getting up to for a few minutes.

 

I never get up to trouble, Dearest.

 

http://www.shetlink.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=200591#200591

[Scorrie]

 

Saying that, as I had offended them, I should be kicked off Shetland, as happened on a different forum, is slightly sinister however given the history of "send them back where they came from."

 

Steve

 

I think the above illustrates that Steve has lost more than just sleep over this.

What does it say about Shetland's population if a guy who starts a petition suffers abuse as a result, particularly given the fact the petition was related to racism? It says to me quite clearly that rascism does indeed exist on Shetland! I find this quite appaling and after having spoken to a number of people about this case it becomes more and more clear that a lot of people feel the same way, but out of fear of reprisals are not willing to voice their opinion publicly. Is this what Shetland/ Shetlink has become? A place where people are too afraid to speak their minds, because of the bully actions of a few? I am disgusted! And ashamed.

 

And I really would like the Mods to take a look at the way Shetlink is run. This forum is the first port of call for a lot of tourists, it is their first taste of the isles. I think Shetlink gives Shetland a bad name.

 

 

Please - not another "Where are the Mods?" plea.

 

About 7 pages of discussion. Plenty of intelligent agreement and disagreement. Less than half a page in total of posts by moronic knuckle-draggers with nothing to add apart from abuse.

And I think fowk can work out in the posts the difference between disagreement and abuse without it reflecting on the whole of Shetland.

 

Shetlink doesn't have a problem. Unless you believe that only squeaky clean nicey posts that show Shetland in a good light should be allowed - in which case the forum deserves to die a slow and terrible death.....the morons do a good job of isolating themselves, let them crack on.

[as]

I am making this my last comment on the subject, as this is like hitting one's head against a brickwall.

 

This is not just about what is written on this forum anymore; people talk and correspond outside these 8 pages. This whole thing has implications in the real world of Shetland, outside Shetlink.

 

This is not just about a bit of cyberbullying. Unfortunately.

[Infiltrator]

I am making this my last comment on the subject, as this is like hitting one's head against a brickwall.

 

This is not just about what is written on this forum anymore; people talk and correspond outside these 8 pages. This whole thing has implications in the real world of Shetland, outside Shetlink.

 

This is not just about a bit of cyberbullying. Unfortunately.

 

As far as I can see, you're the only person on this thread that's assumed the folk who suggested Steve should 'kicked off Shetland' were from Shetland? He said it was another forum - the perpetrators could be anywhere in the world, and just trolling for a laugh. The very nature of public forums means if you take things that are written personally, they're not the place for you.

 

As for Shetlink being the public face of Shetland, your previous post, talking about people not wanting to speak openly in public for fear of reprisals, is almost verging on paranoia, and unless Shetland has turned into the 1950's Mississippi since I left 6 years ago, your views bear no resemblance to the place that I spent 40 years growing up in.

 

I spent my entire working career in Shetland working with hundreds, if not thousands of incomers, and socialising with many of them, I never once experienced anything I'd consider even verging towards racism.

 

As for Shetlink being out of control, it's the tightest moderated forum I've ever been a member of - by a long way, and with it's optional anonymity, it plays a valuable part in Shetlands modern society.

 

I don't have a problem with Steve wanting to raise the profile, and educate people about casual racism - I think the impact of his approach, given Shetlands tightly knit community, was somewhat underestimated by Steve. Had his message been about the issue in the wider society, he may have had a more positive response. However, he chose to target a particular shop, and then make allegations about the Shetland community, unfortunately many people have taken this personally.

 

(edit last para to reflect what I really meant)

[as]

All I can really say is that I was referring to people from Shetland having made comments like that, outside this forum. After all, there are other forms of communication..... wether you choose to believe it or not, is of course up to you. It certainly was not "for a laugh".

 

And as for people wishing to remain silent and not wanting to be identified: it also happens. After all as you rightly point out, this is a small community. For starters, the person who had originally been involved and "caused" Steve to start the petition in the first place, changed their minds and asked him to remove the letter as he has already explained. Why do you think that is?

 

There's 22 000 (or so) people on these islands. And not a single racist remark/ action ever passed? Just because you personally do not hear about it, does not mean it does not happen. There's always people travelling and coming and going back and forth and no doubt some of those folk are less tolerant towards other groups than we all would hope for. It's a true fact. This is not also just an issue between black and white. Just think of the influx of Eastern Europeans.

 

There's nothing else I can really add to the debate.

 

Luckily it is the minority of Shetland's population that frequents these pages......but unfortunately it still leaves a certain impression on a tourist casually trawling through Shetlink.

I am a member of a variety of other web forums and I must honestly say they are moderated differently.

 

Edit to say that it is the quaranteed anonymity on Shetlink that might be part of the problem. I think this has been debated in the past.