Gollywogs - is this guy for real?.

[as]

the petitioner was white and started the petition after being told about the upset the Gollywogs caused a coloured aquaintance who not long after asked him to remove the petition because they were worried at the sheer amount of hassle and threats and verbal abuse the petitioner received as a consequence. They were also worried about possibly being identified in such a small community.

[unlinkedstudent]

Gibber, do you not know the difference between a comma and a full stop?

 

"Perhaps Shetland's ethnic minorities concluded long ago that a 'vocal few' are the only ones on their side in Shetland and a majority of 'non coloured' people like yourself, Colin, Trout and Unlinked will dismiss the connotations of any racially offensive items if they are being sold in a Shetland shop by a 'non coloured' nice old Shetland lady and told by people like you that, "if those [coloured people] who are in any way of character like this one [Lemn Sissay], we can well do without both them and their extremist opinions.""

 

Now if there was a great big poster up above the gollies with a slogan along the lines of what one could expect the likes of the BNP to display (in other words, inciting racism) then I would most definitely complain.  But the shop owner didn't and hasn't.  She is going about her perfectly lawful business.  People are entitled to their opinions; in case it hadn't escaped your attention, we still have some freedom of speech left.

 

But define what is and can be construed as a "racially offensive item".  A Barbie doll?  A Cabbage Patch doll?  What about, as I mentioned previously, an album with derogatory lyrics inciting rape?  Which takes preferential treatment, race or a feminist viewpoint?  The Wikipedia article referred to earlier contains the word "perhaps" in relation to golliwogs having racial overtones in the USA.  So then that brings in cultural and geographical differences.  In other words, just how far does the curtailment of free speech go for fear of offending somebody?  I can show the soles of my feet here but in other countries in the world, that would be a big no-no, as would, for example, bowing my head lower than a certain height.  I'm not adopting the culture of the USA; I don't live there. 

[Colin]

It does not logically follow that this is the only conclusion.  They may not be aware of the dolls, they may have officially complained in confidence and nothing was done, they may have voiced their concerns informally to friends and left it at that, perhaps they didn't want to 'make a fuss' for whatever reason they choose or they may have thought the idea of complaining was a bad one given what they percieve (rightly or wrongly) to be a common prejudiced attitude in Shetland evinced by yourself in this forum when you say things like...

 

 

I would agree with you that GR's opinion might not be the only conclusion but, I wouldn't be so keen to offer up what appears to be pure supposition as an argment against it.  Far to much 'they may' and 'perhaps' in it for it to gain any credibility with me. 

I would also have thought very carefully before accusing GR of holding a "common prejudiced attitude".  Character slurs are a very poor way of trying to argue a point.

[Gibber]

I quoted the entire attributed sentence at the top of my post ....

 

Unlinked, please try to understand the above sentence.  I hope you can also understand that I can't really keep repeating this for your benefit.

[unlinkedstudent]

 

I quoted the entire attributed sentence at the top of my post ....

 

... I can't really keep repeating this for your benefit.

 

 

Thank {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'} for that!  

[shetlandpeat]

At the end of all this, are you telling the blogger he did not witness or feel he witnessed any racism?

 

These dolls, they appear to be imported according to the writings of said blogger. Is that true?

[Gibber]

I would agree with you that GR's opinion might not be the only conclusion but, I wouldn't be so keen to offer up what appears to be pure supposition as an argment against it.  Far to much 'they may' and 'perhaps' in it for it to gain any credibility with me. 

I would also have thought very carefully before accusing GR of holding a "common prejudiced attitude".  Character slurs are a very poor way of trying to argue a point.

 

 

My argument is its all supposition and there is no single conclusion without evidence.  'as' has provided anecdotal evidence that a black Shetland resident was offended by the golliwogs and informally related this to a friend.  He or she subsequently felt the need to take it no further due to local pressure.  This evidence broadly concurs with more than one of my suppositions and is completely at odds with GR's 'only logical conclusion'.  If as's evidence is untrue it still does not make GR's supposition any more true than any of mine and of course vice versa.

 

"if those [coloured people] who are in any way of character like this one [Lemn Sissay], we can well do without both them and their extremist opinions."

 

...has a ring of prejudice about it.  You yourself took umbrage when you thought I attributed it to you.  Why did you say it was 'pretty strong'?  You've already disagreed with the way LS went about his complaint so can I assume it's the; do without coloured people in Shetland, bit that you thought excessive?  

[unlinkedstudent]

Dictionary time!

 

an·ec·do·tal  

/ËŒanikˈdÅtl/

 

Adjective

1. (of an account) Not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
2. Characterized by or fond of telling anecdotes.

By the way, who's got the popcorn?

[Gibber]

Now if there was a great big poster up above the gollies with a slogan along the lines of what one could expect the likes of the BNP to display (in other words, inciting racism) then I would most definitely complain.

 

BNP merchandising site.

 

http://www.buyexcalibur.co.uk/index.php?searchStr=golly&act=viewCat&Submit=Go

Edited September 22, 2013 by Gibber

[shetlandpeat]

What folk think

 

http://www.scotlandagainstracism.com/onescotland/83.12.49.html

[Gibber]

Dictionary time!

 

an·ec·do·tal  

/ËŒanikˈdÅtl/

 

Adjective

1. (of an account) Not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
2. Characterized by or fond of telling anecdotes.

By the way, who's got the popcorn?

 

Yes, I used the word anecdotal, because as's account was anecdotal.  I even alluded to the fact that being anecdotal it may not be true, "If as's evidence is untrue..."

 

Would it be too personal to suggest you have the popcorn and you're letting it do your thinking for you?

 

only joking

Edited September 22, 2013 by Gibber

[unlinkedstudent]

 

Now if there was a great big poster up above the gollies with a slogan along the lines of what one could expect the likes of the BNP to display (in other words, inciting racism) then I would most definitely complain.

 

BNP merchandising site.

 

http://www.buyexcalibur.co.uk/index.php?searchStr=golly&act=viewCat&Submit=Go

 

Gibber, that same website is also selling BNP goods with St George & the Dragon, the English flag, a bulldog and the Union Jack ... should all of those items be banned from sale too because the BNP has chosen to use them?

[Gibber]

No, but ask yourself why the BNP has chosen to use them.  Or ask somebody else.

[unlinkedstudent]

No, but ask yourself why the BNP has chosen to use them.  Or ask somebody else.

 

So Gibber, if you are saying that the items I listed above shouldn't be withdrawn from sale, are you also saying that gollies or gollywogs shouldn't be withdrawn from sale?

 

I'll be honest here, despite living in East London for many years and being unfortunate enough to meet some BNP thugs; whilst I knew the BNP used the English flag, I wasn't aware they also used a golliwog.  But if anything, that proves how some people never held a racial association with the doll in the first place!

[Gibber]

But if anything, that proves how some people never held a racial association with the doll in the first place!

 

You seem to be proving you still don't think there are/were racial associations with golliwogs.