Gollywogs - is this guy for real?.

[Ghostrider]

stevejack3. Strikes me you're making a mountain out of a molehill and creating a problem that virtually didn't exist.

 

This is not Glasgow, where we're well aware there are some streets if one of us paler skinned people went walking, we'd be the only white face on it.

 

Last I noticed there were no more humans on this island who can claim descent from the indigenous population of the piece of land commonly referred to as Pakistan, than you could count on one set of fingers and toes. In the 35 years since I first clapped eyes on one of them, I have yet to witness anyone affording them any less respect, politeness and courtesy than anyone else.

 

Where you are in the general company of numerous other of different race most responsible, fair minded people with a grain of intelligence and common sense are minful of the company they are in, and behave accordingly. In a place such as this where anyone who might take personal offence is highly conspicious, what does it matter what terminology people use among themselves. Its human nature that folk slag off others behind their backs, usually in very derogatory terms, with whatever they can sieze on to use. Folk are just doing what they do to everyone in what you call "casual racism". Is slagging someone off for being fat, thick, or whatever any better/worse??

 

I've yet to hear anyone say anything negative about someone of another race, that they hadn't also said something worse about folk of their own race too. But maybe you know different, maybe they do things differently in Eid and you've stumbled over a top secret cell of the KKK or BNP hiding there.

 

I do hope those whom you are crusading on behalf of appreciate your efforts, in my experience it isn't always so. I went to the AHS over 30 years ago and there was an Indian guy in the class who'd grown up in Glasgow. Maybe I have gone totally senile, but as I recall it we slagged him off to his face about his roots and religion, and he returned the compliment by doing exactly the same to us about ours, and, amazingly, neither he, not us gave the first damn. In fact, it became something of a game to pass the time on boring rainy days. I of course am probably wearing rose tinted glasses though, but, dammit, I even remember his name, so you could ask him if you can find him.

 

Unlike you, I do not profess to speak on behalf of any culture or ethnitcity, but I would be curious to hear the opinions of the few here who might be offended by allegely racist rhetoric. In my strictly limited experience minorities of all sorts have always given me the impression that they were accepted and included as much as anyone locally, and I've never been aware of any incident or complaint from them to suggest the contrary. I of course could be very wrong, but I would rather hear that from the horses's mouth so to speak, and not from someone who it cannot be known what their knowledge and perspective is, as they have not mentioned their ethniticity at all.

 

You of course are entitled to your own opinion, but next you here of a Shetlander moaning about incomers coming here and then telling folk how they should live, what they should think, and changing everything. You might want to take a look in a mirror and consider whether you are one of the people they're talking about, or if not, at least one of the people who keep that regrettable and unfortunate stereotype alive.

 

Oh, and by the way, I've typed this up with a sooth wife lying sound asleep at my elbow on my couch. "Sooth Wife" translates from Shetland to be either "English/Irish/Scots/Welsh Woman", I'm neither English, Irish, Scots of Welsh, so I guess calling her an "English Woman" makes me a racist of some sort. I'll ask her when she wakes up...

 

Better still, she'll probably wake up before me, steal my computer and read this before I wake up. So I'll know know if I wake up dead, I've racially offended her, and she's clobbered me with the heaviest metal object she could find lying around.

[stevejack3]

I'll have a think about what you have said and post tomorrow.

 

Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed response.

 

Steve

[Mattie]

Steve,

At least you have spelled the word Golliwog right lol!

It is sad that you have targetted a wee Shetland collectible shop with Golliwogs in the window to make a point about racism in Shetland!

It is a collectors shop and is unique and sells so many hard to come by items.. If you like to collect the unusual.

Including Golliwogs.. Old ones are worth a few quid!

Collectible trolls used to feature in the shop window too!

The lady that owns this shop is lovely and isn't a racist.

You must be making her life hell with this petition.

Along with targetting her business.

That is totally unfair.

[stevejack3]

Hi

 

Not easy to sleep with all this going on!

 

Certainly wasn't my intention to target an individual business. I tried not to do that - at the moment, for example, there is a display in the museum.

 

Perhaps it wasn't the best way to express this view but it certainly got people discussing the wider issues. If I think of anything more sensible to add, I'll do that when I'm more awake.

 

Steve

[mikeyboy]

So the golliwog in the shop is second hand or an antique? You also mentioned a display in the Museum.

Are you saying that we should censor the past?

[JohanofNess]

Steve I'll give you credit for sticking your head above the parapet and making the point but in my opinion you picked the wrong issue to push it.

 

It is sad that you have targetted a wee Shetland collectible shop with Golliwogs in the window to make a point about racism in Shetland!

It is a collectors shop and is unique and sells so many hard to come by items.. If you like to collect the unusual. Including Golliwogs.. Old ones are worth a few quid! Collectible trolls used to feature in the shop window too! The lady that owns this shop is lovely and isn't a racist. You must be making her life hell with this petition. Along with targetting her business.

That is totally unfair.

[Scorrie]

Hi

 

Not easy to sleep with all this going on!

 

Certainly wasn't my intention to target an individual business. I tried not to do that - at the moment, for example, there is a display in the museum.

 

Perhaps it wasn't the best way to express this view but it certainly got people discussing the wider issues. If I think of anything more sensible to add, I'll do that when I'm more awake.

 

Steve

OK, let's widen this subject a little......

 

The Irish have (historically speaking) been on the receiving end of some rather ruthless treatment by the English, Welsh and Scots over the past few hundred years. They were certainly viewed as nothing more than a race of third class thieves and brawling idlers by many.

 

Yet, come St Pats day especially, thousands of people around the world don ridiculous green hats, ginger wigs and beards and wander around shouting racially stereotypical exclamations such as "beghorra" and "bejabers".

 

This mass racial ridicule certainly appears to be widely accepted by those who smugly profess their racial savvyness by disapproving of the slang description of a minority group or, for example, the perceived spoofing of such a group in costume or by producing a small cloth doll.....there's a massive blind spot there....

 

Could it be that seeing as the Irish are predominantly white, they are subconciously viewed as being more than able to fight their own corner by those noisy, self-appointed and white virtuous defenders of racial equality minutiae - whereas non-whites must automatically be viewed as 'victims' who must be shown what to approve or disapprove of by their white and more enlightened 'betters'?

 

Oddly, I don't recall my black oppos becoming enraged at brekky time by the marmalade jar labels.

But no doubt someone will be along any minute now to tell me that this is because they have been conditioned by years of white supremacy to accept their lot without question........

 

This whole gollywog issue smacks of chattering class right-on politics to me. I'd be more inclined to take on board a majority opinion from the black community as opposed to individual comments from whiteys like me and thee.

[unlinkedstudent]

Oh, and by the way, I've typed this up with a sooth wife lying sound asleep at my elbow on my couch. "Sooth Wife" translates from Shetland to be either "English/Irish/Scots/Welsh Woman", I'm neither English, Irish, Scots of Welsh, so I guess calling her an "English Woman" makes me a racist of some sort. I'll ask her when she wakes up...

 

Better still, she'll probably wake up before me, steal my computer and read this before I wake up. So I'll know know if I wake up dead, I've racially offended her, and she's clobbered me with the heaviest metal object she could find lying around.

WHACKS Ghostie for not referring to moi as His better half but considers murdering Him for failing to leave me His ciggie lighter within reach and for not awakening me with a coffee

 

The Almighty Female Lincolnshire Yellow Belly, typed on her laptop, not His.

[Kavi Ugl]

Hello Steve, as you'll have seen I am the original poster of this topic.

 

Fair play to you for coming on here and into the discussion.

 

However, I think Ghostrider has hit the nail on the head - you've made a mountain out of a molehill!, and dare I say it mis-judged the Shetland you now live in.

 

Whatever the history is behind the Golliwog it really has no bearing on Shetland and I'm guessing most people under, say, 40 know very little if anything about it.

 

As I mentioned the basic height of my knowledge of Golliwogs is the little characters on the marmalade jars and the little dolls themselves.

 

As for racism in Shetland, apart from the very rare occurance of some motor mouth I think it's as non-existant in Shetland as the dodo bird!.

 

Oh, and I would offer an apology to you for the use of the word "numptee" in an earlier post - it was just an "annoyance of the moment" reaction to a problem being dragged up in Shetland which, I and I'm sure many others feel, doesn't exist here.

 

[unlinkedstudent]

@stevejack3

 

Well, I note the link to the letter no longer works so I can't help but wonder if you requested it be withdrawn? I then did a search of the archives and noticed that the golliwogs had been mentioned previously. Whilst some did find them offensive, this was contained within one of the replies:-

 

"When I in turn took students to the first Garden Festival in Liverpool, there was a Robertson's stand covered in Gollywogs jars of marmalade, oranges and beautiful flowers, it was the most popular stand of the day with both adults and children. No one mentioned how dreadful, insulting or mocking it was.

 

Political correctness was beginning then. When we approached the stand to talk to the staff and compliment them on their colourful stand, they were telling us that a whole consignment of marmalade had been returned from South Africa with a message to say that they didn't believe it was a genuine Robertson's product because there were no "gollywogs" on the label. Export instructions demanded the labels described the product only!!!!!!!"

 

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/letters/1668-too-quick-on-the-bandwagon.html

 

As Ghostie pointed out, I'm from outwith Shetland. Many a time I too have raised my head above the parapet and some of my posts have been unpopular on this forum. I often wondered if it was what I typed or because of the fact I'm not a Shetlander. However, thanks to the wording you have chosen to use, I can now better understand why I've heard the likes of "These incomers coming here and telling us what to think and what to do" - Shetland has its own culture and identity; it isn't blooming East London, Glasgow, or any other major inner city down sarf.

 

I pity the shop owner and for once, it would appear that John O'Ness and I are in agreement!

[exciseman]

It’s bloody hard work being a UK born, non-Muslim, Caucasian, heterosexual these days.

[Scorrie]

.......

 

As Ghostie pointed out, I'm from outwith Shetland. Many a time I too have raised my head above the parapet and some of my posts have been unpopular on this forum. I often wondered if it was what I typed or because of the fact I'm not a Shetlander. However, thanks to the wording you have chosen to use, I can now better understand why I've heard the likes of "These incomers coming here and telling us what to think and what to do" - Shetland has its own culture and identity; it isn't blooming East London, Glasgow, or any other major inner city down sarf.

 

I pity the shop owner and for once, it would appear that John O'Ness and I are in agreement!

No matter where you live (especially in small communities), there will always be an element who choose to heap their woes upon 'them outsiders'. Most of those who subscribe to that rather xenophobic notion would probably be aghast to hear themselves described as 'racist'. Never stops them whining about other folk though.

 

BTW, I'm sure at some time we've all heard the line "I'm not racist...but...."

[as]

Shetland might not be and therefore experience the same level of racial tension or descrimination compared to the cities south, but nonetheless, it does exist here too.

 

Do I remember correctly reading online on one of the news sites (Times or News?) recently about a teenager being charged after shouting racial abuse at somebody in a Take-Away? If my memory serves me right that was hardly an isolated case either. Surely other incidents like that occur, but do not necessarily make the news.

 

Shetland is not the paradise full of wonderful lovely peaceloving folk that it likes to portrait to the tourists passing through. Scratch beneath the surface and you find that this place is just like any other, although much smaller. There's plenty of wonderful and helpful folk here and also plenty of folk who are unhappy with the numbers of incomers settling here, regardless of their skin colour.

 

But what would have happened to Shetland if the oil had not been discovered and with it came the incomers? Every small community needs "fresh blood" to replenish the gene pool. People have travelled and settled in new locations and mixed their cultures with the existing population for heaven knows how long. Shame that this never seems to work out peacefully.....

[Gibber]

Hi

 

Not easy to sleep with all this going on!

Don't let it get to you, you may have chosen the wrong target but you've done it for the right reasons. Ignore the stories here of 'accecptable' casual racism or the 'lack of minorities in Shetland' defence or only minorities can truely speak for minorities or you have no business telling people what is right and wrong.

 

When it comes to prejudice some people need to be told why its an important point, thats because some people are idiots.

[unlinkedstudent]

...

When it comes to prejudice some people need to be told why its an important point, thats because some people are idiots.

Told is one thing, not accepting that language/symbols/whatever evolve throughout time is another.