Windmills / SIC Cut Backs

[Dratsy]

PIPELINE peat there is a bloody great pipeline to take the gas out into the north sea then on to St Fergus NO TANKERS.

It has been well publicised and talked about on here for months if not years so I guess this is a case where education and information has been wasted on you yet again.

[shetlandpeat]

I knew that, I was leading. No revenue for any tankers, how much was that worth in its day I wonder. So the Total thing is like a transfer station for interconnected pipes. Still no gas for Shetland, so will have to go with the electricity.

So then, how much gas will pass through this gas converter station, will it be the same as the peak gas flow in the 80's or will it be more? Still, no answer. Still see you are up for insulting folk.

[Dratsy]

I knew that, I was leading.

bollox peat pure bollox

 

And no answer because as yet no one knows just how much gas is out west conservative estimates put it at a turd load and considering the test results so far it will be bigger than the east Shetland basin in time

[Dratsy]

a mere statement of fact peat not an insult

[shetlandpeat]

How do you know that? Your very perceptive, a credit to someone no doubt.

 

No need for fracking just yet, as you say, enough gas up there.

 

It will not generate the same income for Shetland though as the oil, which has given Shetland the benefits it will be missing shortly and have already started to feel, though I don't think your suggestion in another thread of killing sick folk will work. Though some may say yes. There is still a need to create a substantial income for the Isles. The money from the CT helped many auld folk and prevented them from being subject to the Dratsy euthanasia answer.

As the cash seems to be dwindling, there will be less money in the economy, that will of course hit the smaller business, more the service business first, it could, on 2007 figures have an affect on 3/4 of the population of Shetland. Not saying they will all go, but as we can see, even the threats of problems like this can be dangerous.

With many folk in Shetland relying on said industry, an alternative should be found. Pehaps independence may work, there will be an ability to tax a bit more to sustain the way folk expect to live. You would need to pay for that first though.

Money from the EU could help, Shetland gets quite a bit at the moment, I am sure someone will tell us whether it is more or less than is paid by folk in Shetland, though the farmers seem to like the grants.

 

The Venice of the North? That won't do it either.

 

What could be the answer?

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

The £930 million is the money generated after the cost of building have been paid (interest on loans, maintenance costs etc).

 

Ok fair enough. I think I can see how this might be possible after a bit of further guess work with factors like output and efficiency and kwh's and roc's etc. and googling possible rates [and the back of fag packet].

 

I can't see how 370MW would work to deliver these promises, from my very limited perspective, but can see how bigger might do it financially (450MW with bigger turbines, and can see why there would be huge pressure for significantly bigger, providing factors affecting profitability stay consistent over the next 25 years?)... that does not placate the environmental and social issues which is why I remain opposed, particularly with the prospect of continued enlargement in the future.

 

Do you know... is VE's income based on 50% (wholesale price + subsidies) or is it more complex than that, like liability for a portion of other costs e.g. interconnector and converter station/ transmission. The contents of the partnership agreement would helpful if you could lay your hands on a copy.

[Dratsy]

jesus mare waffle I did not say we should kill off the old folks I made a joke about harald shipman there is a difference.

with independence we could reduce tax there for attracting business and folk here and boosting our ecomomy.

If loads of folk leave then so will tesco boosting small businesses

yeah right money from the EU at the moment they have made a fund of £1.5 million to compensate for the loss of fishing boats for the whole highlands and islands about the same as one small white fish boat grosses in a year so not much compensation really considering how many boats we have lost due to EU rules.

Yet again peat you want subsidy and I want industry you want hand outs I want people to work and take pride in their community and that won't be achieved the way you envisage things.

The cuts we are facing just now are quite possibly unnecessary It may be the councils way of getting folks to accept the windfarm.

A few less highly paid officials got rid by pointing out their failures and sacking instead of the usual golden handshake.

A lot less consultants, if we need them then why employ the managers we have in place. And this coming from a consultant too.

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

The cuts we are facing just now are quite possibly unnecessary It may be the councils way of getting folks to accept the windfarm.

 

I'm hoping what happens after 3rd May will be an improvement. Just need to read up on all our candidates views.

[shetlandpeat]

Tesco does very well in downturns with the economy generally, they will not be leaving. What "industry" would give the same level of comforts you think you need?

 

In 2009, over 73 million pounds worth of fish was landed in Shetland. Shetland boats also landed over 40 million pounds worth of fish out side of Shetland. Is that the sort of industry you are talking about?

 

The vessels, in 1991 there were 89 licensed vessels, in 2007 there were 177, and in 2009 there were 182, the same amount as in 2008. Unless there has been a dramatic reduction, it seems to be on an up.

 

We cannot do farming, it can kill the lochs due to run off.

 

The population is getting older as well, 17% in 2009 were over retirement age, they will need looking after, as do the 18% or more of those not old enough to work, they need looking after. This is why there is an expense for social care, quite a big industry.

 

What industry will pay for this, more fishing?

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

In your last post you mention fish landings ?

Are those figures for the shetland fleet? what about the scottish fleet ? what about the Norwegian, German,Danish, Dutch, French & Spanish fleets who also harvest large volumes of fish from Shetlands waters every year .

It is a well proven renewable resource and certainly worth hundreds of millions of pounds every year.

[shetlandpeat]

The landings are those in Shetland by all boats. As far as other nationals vessels, there are not as many boats as reported by sightings from the air. In 2008, there were 2166 sightings of UK boats in the area and 504 sightings of other nationalities of which, landings by foreign vessels in Lerwick were 155. There were in the same year, 161 UK vessels boarded against 22 others.

The second popular nationality for air sightings were Norwegian vessels.

 

Air sightings have declined for all nationalities since 1996 at a similar level.

 

On their own, Shetland boats are doing well in other waters.

 

As far as harvesting large quantities, from around Shetland, it seems Shetland boats may be levelling it out a bit. You would need to look at all the areas in those countries to get their figures.

Norway is the biggest taker, nearly half the vessels spotted are from there.

 

Still not the industry required to give the same level of funds.

 

The fish processing industry in 2009 employed 297 people. The largest number of processing lines were for shellfish.

 

Total turn over £133 million. £447,811 per employee.

 

701 were employed at the oil terminal, half were subcontractors, there are no figures I have found yet but it works at 125,642 barrels each. 1/4 million per Non subby.

 

Farming brings in about £8 million according to the 2009 income graph as well as the grants from EU and SGOV bring it up to £17.5 million.

It does employ 2131 folk from Owners, employees and others. £8348 each.

 

A throughput of quite a substantial sum of money for some.

 

To achieve the same levels into the trust would require quite a bit extra I would imagine.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

Well Peat , your googled statistics do not represent certain factors, such as many of those UK Vessels sighted by air were probably "flag ships", UK registered but owned by foriegn interests and mostly crewed by non Brits.

Also , 1 dutch or french 100+ metre factory freezer trawler could be catching 50 times or more the volume/value of seafood than a 20 metre norwegian longliner .

Do you have any real working knowledge of the fishing industry ?

[shetlandpeat]

Oh, I googled the figures, not quite right there. They are from a document I have from the Economic Development Unit. Go get your own copy.

 

I am not sure what your argument is, but I was looking at how much already goes through Shetland. I am not really caring about who is on each boat, a Norwegian boat with a part Shetland crew or not. It does not mention if those boats landed in the UK or another nationals port. I did not make any judgements on these vessels. You are quite correct though, but as I was not trying to prove a point, but just give some info on Fisheries Protection Data (not mine), you may want to ask them to do a passport check on all boats seen, you may know the answer to your questions then.

 

Anyhow, I have given the figures from the document I have a copy of. I did not interview the crew on each vessel sighted by air, sea or boarded.

 

How much more fishing would need to be done, to sustain the levels of funding that the oil money gave?

 

 

Over a hundred million pounds worth of fish pass through Shetland.

 

There are other factors as well that distort the figures as well. Black fish landings, that did nothing but line the pockets of individuals. Not really good for the community.

 

As there is some opposition to the VE project, exploring other incomes would have to be done. Even more so if there are to be more cuts, which will not pay for the schools to stay open. If more folk leave the islands, there will not be a need for so many services.

 

No one has yet to come up with a working model to create an income. If VE is not viable, what is?

[crofter]

Don't forget the fish that the EU is forcing boats to dump. That is worth more than the windfarm is projected to provide every year. A waste of tens of millions of pounds off the Shetland coast every year, for no environmental benefit.

[Dratsy]

There are other factors as well that distort the figures as well. Black fish landings, that did nothing but line the pockets of individuals. Not really good for the community

 

Yet again your ignorance needs educating.

The black fish landing prevented good quality fish being dumped and were only illegal because of a daft EU rule.

The fish were landed at Shetland catch and other processors in Scotland and Ireland providing well paid jobs for a good sized portion of the population up here.

That black or illegal if you like fish then went for export mainly to Africa providing folks there with much needed protein in their diet.

The black fish landings also kept the cost of mackerel at a realistic level allowing folk everywhere to be better able to afford it.

 

And you said it only lined the pockets of a few individuals

 

I highlighted Ireland for the reason that even though we are supposed to be in the same club following the same set of rules and the Irish were the first to be caught, there have been no prosecutions in Ireland and no payback of quota by Irish boats, so one size does not fit all when it comes to implementing those rules.

 

And now we are back to the dumping of good fish over the side.

 

I am not really caring about who is on each boat, a Norwegian boat with a part Shetland crew or not

 

stick to talking about traffic cones peat it is a subject you may actually have some knowledge of