soundview Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I would be interested to know what other users think of the entire concept of referendums. Given the complexity of issues such as the Lisbon treaty is it feasible for the vast majority of the public to have enough understanding of the ramifications to make an educated vote. Info garnered from the Sun doesn't count! Do we not vote in the politicians to make these kind of descicions? Even a vote on independence (which I think there should be) are more complex than first may be thought. If you walk down a street in Glasgow and see the neds loitering on corners the confidence in the voting system tends to dip slightly. I'm not saying there should be an iq test before voting is allowed or any such rot before folk start bashing me! Any thoughts anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraxas Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 If'n ye had honest politicians yez could put yer faith in, I'd say "Crack on, Tonto" te the lot o them an' leave them te it. But... have yez ever seen the transmissions from the House o Morons? Holy Sarah Jane Smith! If ye have more than twenty o the beggars there, ye know it's got te be a debate on their expenses! Otherwise, ye've got the ones that have fallen asleep, lost the will te live, or forgot te take their medication, while some chinless nyaff from whatever party drones on an' on an' on an' on... grabbin his/her chance te speak, but with no one o any consequence listenin or actin on what they're witterin about. Gibberingousness Nonsensica is widespread throughout the place (usually passed on through lip contact with ers.e-cheeks as they vie fer favours from the anointed twannies an their cabals). Dante actually had the place as the last circle o' Hell, but the re-writes buggered it up. A big problem in this country is also that Parliament was never meant fer "the people". 'Twas fer the monied inbred pilticks that administered an translated fer the foreign king, a means o' control over the lower classes an suchlike. The Tories an' the Whigs have never really forgotten this, an as fer Labour... Well, y'see, when Murdoch Inc. destroyed the ould party o' the likes o' Wedgie Benn, ould Donkey Jacket (Foot), an the Welsh Wonder Kinnochio (as in I wonder how this incompetent twanny got away wi rippin off all us, all that time as "EU Commissioner" on the Brussels Gravy Train - I wouldn't trust him to look after my nephew's piggybank, let alone the interests o' a feckin country!! ), the New Breed made a pact wi Ould Nick hisself fer a shot at power. An Mephistopheles Mandelson's advice was clear... become yer enemy. Since then, Labour have become more Tory than the Tories. They even courted ould Iron Knickers in her dotage! So ye've got a system built by an' fer monied folk, run on the whole by monied folk (Labour included), actin primarily in the interests o monied folk (Labour included), who couldn't give a single solitary pellet of faeces fer the hardships, cares or concerns o' the folk they "represent" (Labour included). Sadly, I believe referendums are o' benefit in this country, or any modern "democracy", te remind the feckers we are here an' have opinions on important matters that they'd otherwise just act on in their own interests (an' probably will anyway, even with a huge majority referendum result against them on any matter!!). A friend o' mine (yes, I do have at least one! Paid fer, o' course! ) always sez that ye probably wouldn't ask a politician te babysit fer yez. Ye probably wouldn't trust them with yer bank details, or even invite them fer tea (tho I imagine Tavish has great table manners ) an when they {'f' it was funny in Father Ted 'eck'} up an rip us off, cheat, steal an lie to us, we tut an tsk an shake our heads but we accept it coz that's what we've come te believe politicians do. An that's really feckin sad, if ye ask me. An' that's why I think we need referendums. But if you don't believe me, we can hold a referendum on it? 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraxas Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Ye've got te be careful wi' questions like this one, Soundasapound, or ye'll have the Bullsharn Brigade accusin yez o' suggestin everyone else is no' as smart as yez are, even tho I don't think that's what yer sayin' here. ( 'Course, truth is, everyone's not as smart as I am. I know coz Stephen Hawking sends me fan mail. An' his ould underwear. It's embarrassin', honest! ðŸ˜) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoots Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I'm certainly no fan of politicians, but it wasn't Mandelson alone that left Labour rotten to the core. There was an entire generation of hungry young politicos there, that allowed themselves to fall prey to temptation and corruption until they couldn't tell right from wrong, IMO. Had it just been him, it would have been more easily dealt with. But it's ingrained now, it seems. With ALL of them, red, blue, yellow... It REALLY hacks me off sometimes. But back it topic, referendums can be of use sometimes, and I stress sometimes. But as Soundview says, I also feel concern that the powers-that-be might simplify or dumb things down - hugely complex things, sometimes, like an "independent" Scotland - to a "Do you like the English? Did you enjoy 'Braveheart' kicking the living #### out of them?"-toned kind of stupidity that appeals to some (moronic) folk. Some things are just too complex for a straight "Yes/No" kind of vote. That may sound bizarre, but I truly believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundview Posted April 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 A straight one question on independence wouldn't work, I think it would probably fail as folk maybe aren't ready for full independence. I dunnu ken which way I'd slide on a yes/no type referendum. But as for the Lisbon treaty, I just can't see how the politicos can expect us to make a properly informed desicion. We vote in the person that we think will do the best job and is most qualified to look after our interests and trust them with the complex stuff. You must have voted abraxas! I know the commons is (mostly) a nest of old boys but we did put them there. Maybe the scottish parliament isn't quite as corrupt (yet), hopefully it will remain that way. I can remember a French political journalist being mystified at the expenses scandal that erupted with such fury, on the continent they seem to expect and accept that their politicians are corrupt! Look at Italy! As for the elitism you mentioned, I'm just waiting for the slagging. I'm not any smarter than the next guy, just interested and awake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoots Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Best way to be. I wish more were this way, instead of only interested in footie, pints or "Corrie". If abraxas DID vote, it'd be Monster Raving Loony! (or LibDem as they're known, these days!! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraxas Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Sorry, I missed what ye said then. I was havin a beer after the match wit' Ken Barlow. ðŸ˜ðŸ˜œ Nickerbocker Clagg & his buddies = 💩 same as the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundview Posted April 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I actually am watching the fit'ba and having a beer right this moment! But I hate soaps so that's ok! I hope there's a good turn out for the local elections. Someone said (I think it was Jed Bartlett on the West Wing!) that all the governing that really matters is done at a local level. Smart man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medziotojas Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 ^Perhaps a referendum would be fairer than the taking of penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Here is a consultation about dog owners, makes you think a little before answering. How many months will you need to think about the future of your homeland. There will be many consultations before a referendum and after. Some the public can take part in. http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/2012/04/23/dangerous-dogs-1204/ And the sea http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/2012/03/27/marine-strategy-framework-1203/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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