Scatsta as Plan B

[ll]

In the past Scatsta was used as 'Plan B' for when Sumburgh wasn't open, but this does not now seem to be the case.

Hopefully the new council and elected representatives can look to sort this as well as problems due to the constraints of Aberdeen harbour, so that an instant plan B is ready to slot into plan when required instead of becoming a hot topic for a few weeks when problems arise then slipping off the agenda until the next time.

[Seaflech]

It would be very beneficial if Scatsta could be used as a regular diversion airfield for Sumburgh in times of fog etc, but I think that both logistically and operationally it would be a non-starter.

 

Scatsta is operated at present exclusively for the transfer of offshore workers from fixed to rotary wing. As the oil companies are paying for their total control over it they would get a slightly crinkly brow if other commercial airlines wanted to use it too.

Assuming they agreed to it, which is very unlikely, then even from Loganair/Flybe's point of view it would potentially cause more problems than it would solve. To give a couple of examples:

 

The fog starts to roll in at Sumburgh and a day of delays and cancellations loom. Loganair decide that they will operate their flights out of Scatsta instead to cause minimal backlog. The ground staff have to grab a load of baggage tags, paperwork and everything else they need and decant in a minibus up to Scatsta. On the way they pass the service bus and a stream of cars all heading to Sumburgh to catch the flights that they assume will be going out of there, as that's what their tickets say.

On arrival at Scatsta the flybe staff can't get access to a desk or security because there are two oil flights in, one coming and one going, so the recently arrived diverted passengers have to stay on the plane until there is room in the terminal. Once they get off the plane is ready for boarding but only a handful of the expected passengers are there, as the rest are either drinking coffee in Sumburgh or have got late word and are driving like fury the length of the mainland to get the flight. A decision has to be made whether to delay the flight for two hours while everybody gets there or leave without them. Either way, people are going to be inconvenienced. Meanwhile, 30 passengers who have just got off the plane are asking at the desk how they are going to get to their cars which are parked at Sumburgh. Panic ensues as every bus company is contacted but due to the two cruise liners in Lerwick no coaches are available. Thirty pissed off folk wait at Scatsta, and as Loganair have landed them at an airport different to the one that it says on their ticket they are liable for getting them to their correct destination.

Now the next plane in has had to divert back to Aberdeen because there were no parking spaces available at Scatsta and because of the extra distance to fly further north, they only have ten minutes of holding fuel so have turned back.

Word comes in that the fog has lifted at Sumburgh and flights are to resume so all the staff jump in the minibus and head south again, meeting a snake of cars and the bus coming up to Scatsta to get the flights that they thought they were going to get out of Sumburgh.

Frantic telephone calls ensue to various call centres, help desks and the Samaritans to figure out what the hell is going on. Never mind, normal service will be resumed as soon as they get back to Wilsness terminal. Over the hill, just in time to see the fog rolling back in again........

 

OR

 

Loganair/flybe can continue the status quo of "Flights cancelled due to fog."

If I was the airline I know which option I would choose.

 

The problem is you can't have an 'instant plan B' for two airports which are 50 miles apart. That's a bit like an airline saying to people 'you're booked on our flight which will be flying out of either Glasgow or Edinburgh. We're not sure which one yet, but we should know on the day just before your flight goes.'

[yuiop]

Very well said Seaflech

[JustMe]

Scatsta was shown as a diversionary airport for a couple of flights in the past few days. Perhaps Royal Mail could consider diverting there whenever Sumburgh is fog bound. After all most of the problems Seaflech outlined would not apply to the mail.

[paulb]

could they not do the security checks and check in at sumburgh and then bus them up. its common to divert planes more than 50 miles south. just a suggestion. tough on the oil companies it wont cause them to much difficulty.

[Scorrie]

A similar problem would arise with a secondary port, plus you'd need the right facilities for the ferries roll on/off capacity, bit thin on the ground.

 

And, again a big mass of traffic driving furiously to the secondary port from Aberdeen. If it was, say, Scrabster then I really wouldn't want to be on the A9 North of Golspie when that lot hits it......

[ll]

When there is an alternative open, it seems poor not to be able to get provision to use this in exceptional circumstances which could be reciprocated if conditions are reversed.

 

If Inverness airport gets fog bound, they seem to manage to use the non civilian MoD Facility at RAF Kinloss which is pretty much the same travelling time as Scatsta and Sumburgh.

 

How many flights go away to the mainland and get diverted to other airports from time to time for one reason or another and people get rerouted?

 

Maybe it is a bit of a gaggle to rearrange things a bit, but in this day and age to encourage business and trade we really need to try harder and strive to find workable solutions.

[Seaflech]

could they not do the security checks and check in at sumburgh and then bus them up.

No they couldn't. You don't go through security to get on the aircraft, you go through it to get into the 'clean' restricted zone of the airport, which the plane happens to be parked in. It would defeat the purpose of security if you went through it then got on a bus to drive to another airport.

 

tough on the oil companies it wont cause them to much difficulty.

 

Sadly as they call the shots they can decide how much difficulty they want to endure, and the answer is always going to be 'none.'

 

When there is an alternative open, it seems poor not to be able to get provision to use this in exceptional circumstances which could be reciprocated if conditions are reversed.

 

I agree, but if the oil flights were delayed because of commercial flights filling a relatively small airport up quickly which resulted in dozens of workers being misplaced then you can bet your lunch voucher that they would be demanding compensation from the airlines.

 

If Inverness airport gets fog bound, they seem to manage to use the non civilian MoD Facility at RAF Kinloss which is pretty much the same travelling time as Scatsta and Sumburgh.

 

No they don't, the only time Kinloss would accept a diversion was an emergency, not a weather diversion. They had no passenger facilities for it and it mucked up their day. The base is all but mothballed now anyway.

 

How many flights go away to the mainland and get diverted to other airports from time to time for one reason or another and people get rerouted?

 

This is true, but airlines more and more these days will not depart if there isn't a better than 80% chance of getting to their destination. A diversion puts crews and aircraft out of position, it uses more fuel and they are responsible for bussing/training their passengers to their original destination. It is far easier for them to say that the weather is below limits and they are delaying or cancelling the flight. That way they aren't liable for their passengers' travel as it is deemed 'exceptional circumstances.'

I would go as far as to say that Loganair try harder than most airlines in times of fog as they know the disruption it causes. I'm sure some would disagree!

 

Maybe it is a bit of a gaggle to rearrange things a bit, but in this day and age to encourage business and trade we really need to try harder and strive to find workable solutions.

Again I agree with you, but other than throwing vast sums of money (which nobody has) at Scatsta and relinquishing some of the oil companies hold of it (which they will never do), I don't know what the answer is.

Part of Shetland life is accepting the weather and trying to work around it.

[Ghostrider]

Two things to remember as well, quite often a flight is overhead Sumburgh, and has made one or more aborted attempts to land before any decision is taken to cancel. As Seaflech says, the sheer practicalities of relocating in such circumstances is nightmarish. Likewise, quite often, while Sumburgh may well be questionable for use due to fog, and as a result gets the "blame", a number of flights are actually delayed or cancelled due to fog problems elsewhere, at the mainland airports at the other end. Folk have this (undertandable?) "habit" if they hear "dir nae plen wi did mist" simply assuming because there is some fog about here that it must be Sumburgh's fault, when quite often its not.

[Scorrie]

It's not a problem unique to Shetland, either.

 

Wick airport is notorious for getting fog bound at this time of the year with the haar rolling in. The Eastern Airways flights have turned back many times after not being able to land, high winds also lead to aborted landings.

 

Back to Aberdeen. There's no diversion to Inverness as logistically it causes more problems than it cures. Part of life's rich tapestry......

[Rasmie]

Scatsta was shown as a diversionary airport for a couple of flights in the past few days. Perhaps Royal Mail could consider diverting there whenever Sumburgh is fog bound. After all most of the problems Seaflech outlined would not apply to the mail.

I gather the mail plane uses Scatsta in fog whenever possible. When its not possible they don't.

It depends what fuel it has available which depends on load factors and fully operation diversionary airfields.

In the past Scatsta was used as 'Plan B' for when Sumburgh wasn't open,

the above also applies.

There is no conspiracy not to use Scatsta,

simply the different operational factors, which mean that it is not always feasible, including the fact Scatsta is extremely busy with its own traffic. If they could you can be sure they would.

.

One simple solution would be to slice the top off Bressay and build a ginormous runway there, and then build a bridge so you can get to it.

[Stevo]

Scatsta was shown as a diversionary airport for a couple of flights in the past few days. Perhaps Royal Mail could consider diverting there whenever Sumburgh is fog bound. After all most of the problems Seaflech outlined would not apply to the mail.

One simple solution would be to slice the top off Bressay and build a ginormous runway there, and then build a bridge so you can get to it.

 

Dont go giving the Council Ideas...!!!

[Sudden Stop]

The previous posters have explained the problems in using Scatsta as a 'plan B' but as I have recently been a member of the 'Loganair refugees', I'll add my 2 cents in anyway.

 

I was diverted to Kirkwall a couple of months back where we met folk from other flights in the same position. Loganair, put us up the Ayre hotel, paid for our evening meal and then put us on the Northlink ferry to Lerwick. This would have cost a pretty penny and I doubt they would have made any money at all for those couple of days of disrupted flights. So, there is a big financial benefit to dropping passengers off at Scatsta when they can.

 

As Rasmie said, there is no conspiracy working away in the backround making sure that people get stuck in Aberdeen/Edinburgh/Glasgow it's more that there needs an awful numbers of boxes to be ticked on any given day before a flight can land at Scatsta. These include the obvious things like the weather being favorable at Scatsta or opening times but also more time specific issues like apron space - something that is hard to forecast if Scatsta is busy with it's own traffic.

 

There were a couple of Loganair flights that landed last week at Scatsta but these coincided with periods of inactivity of the oil flights. Those passengers may not have been overjoyed to see Sullom Voe instead of Jarlshof but they would have been sleeping in their own beds that night, albeit an hour or so late. The will power is there to use Scatsta when they can.

 

The big problem is that all Loganair can do, is drop off passengers and depart again empty. There are no check-in staff with the Loganair specific load sheets and boarding passes based at Scatsta process southbound passengers. This is where it gets to be about money as far as I can see:-

 

If Scatsta is shut one day, the passengers can't be simply shipped off on the Northlink ferry and forgotten about, they can only ever be postponed till the weather changes or the Scatsta staff can get down to Sumburgh and set up shop there. The show must go on - the offshore crew changes must continue to happen. It's not easy, it's not convenient and it takes a small army of people all pulling together to work out how to suddenly up root an operation and move 50 mile down the road. Now, if the oil industry can it, can Loganair? I think - yes but at great cost.

 

Extra training for check in staff, extra security passes for a different airport, bus transfers operating both directions, operations department decisiveness, pilot familiarisation visits, engineering support, top level management cooperation/agreements, cost sharing of common resources and most probably hidden costs like liability insurances etc. There are a great deal of hurdles to be crossed for what may turn out not to be needed more than once of twice a year.

 

In the long run it'll probably be cheaper to just drop off a couple of flights and cancel the rest. Remember, as a monopoly operation it doesn't really matter if they annoy a few folk - there is no competion to loose the customers to (and even if there were, that airline would doing the same anyway).

 

I know it sucks to be stuck somewhere but I think we just have to suffer it as a being part of island life.