as Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 sounds more like arrogance and selfishness on the wife's part...she didn't want him to go but hang on to him for longer, but for who's benefit? His or her owns? He obviously felt the time was right and maybe he wanted to spare the family having to watch the inevitable end? I really don't think that is cowardice. shetlandpeat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
as Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 forgot to say that interestingly that comment had 60 dislikes. shetlandpeat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
as Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 http://www.euthanasia.cc/stats.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 im not debating this subject as its a personal thing. ive seen a number of family die and lots of folks were i used to work. the wife sees dying folks every day and has seen has seen hundreds of deaths. the only bad deaths were missed managed. im sorry that your friend died like that. ask yourselves why doctors and most nurses are against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Paul, after all, it is a personal choice. I do not understand why a person should continue to suffer because of the fears of others. The choice should be there for those who are unable to take their own lives if they wish to do so. What this does at the moment is discriminate against the disabled and forces loved ones into difficult situations. There are already mechanisms in place for those who lose mental capacity in the form of treatment agreements, they can dictate types of treatment at critical moments. Along side the assisted suicide debate is the right to a dignified existance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffererof1crankymofo Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 im not debating this subject as its a personal thing. ive seen a number of family die and lots of folks were i used to work. the wife sees dying folks every day and has seen has seen hundreds of deaths. the only bad deaths were missed managed. im sorry that your friend died like that. ask yourselves why doctors and most nurses are against it. Re: the only bad deaths were mismanaged - in HER opinion. Re: ask yourselves why doctors and most nurses are against it - I wasn't aware that there had been a worldwide poll whereby every single doctor and nurse was asked and gave their view. The medical profession is biased. Doctors here take an oath and many have accepted what has been drilled into them; they must protect life. Just because they are medical professionals it doesn't immediate equate to their views being the only views that count and it doesn't equate to their views being the only right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 they have the most experience of death and dying. there have been poles of the nursing and medical professions and they are always against assisted death.. doctors are mainly realistic with the exception of the odd few most know not to push treatments that will not benefit the dying. treating terminally ill people has improved as have how they are medicated. caring and dealing with folks that are close to death is a specialized area. hence why dying in hospital should be avoided as much as possible. http://bma.org.uk/news-views-analysis/news/2014/july/doctors-leaders-warn-against-assisted-dying http://www.carenotkilling.org.uk/articles/nmc-issues-warning/ http://www.rcn.org.uk/newsevents/press_releases/uk/rcn_launches_guidance_for_nurses_on_assisted_suicide i do admit there are the odd 1 or 2 who do not respond to the medication. in that limited cases i would be in favour but in general no. but even these cases there are things that can help with there pain. as said before its a difficult area. ethics is not straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffererof1crankymofo Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 they have the most experience of death and dying. I think you'll find that the dead outnumber them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) In a survey in the USA, a large number of nurses admitted to manipulating opiate doses prescribed by doctors in order to releave the suffering experienced by patients. Their identities were not disclosed. This manipulation resulted in death. I would wonder if you include those who work in hospices as having an acute experience in death. This then throws up all sorts of other issues. I would hope that if someone is prescribed medication that they can voluntary take to end their own life is not the only reason listed as cause of death.What is woefully wrong is the way causes of death are reported by doctors. There is a serious shortfall of funding for research because of Doctors unwilling to report deaths properly outside of the hospital. With many patients with a life ending illness passing away at home or a hospice, they are not as acurately reported. With working and talking to a Peadiatric Brain Tumour charity, I found that funding, for what is one of the biggest killers of those under 40 with cancer is very seriously underfunded because of the failure of Doctors to report properly. So much so that the charity has funded a reserch project to the tune of £700,000. A sterling effort. I hope Paul you are not insisting that folk should not be afforded a choice in how and when they shuffle off and they should suffer the pais of life. As you should very well know, with some, pain cannot be relieved. The patien becomes cabbaged on high doses of opiates until their heart gives way under the stress or they, as you very well know, suffer multiple organ failure and die in a most horrid way. All there should be is a choice. Who are You to keep that from folk? Edited July 19, 2014 by shetlandpeat as 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Sorry Paul, the last post sounded as if I was having a go at just you. All folk really want is the choice, they have it when they are able bodied and should do as well when they are less able to get around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 doing that here is a crime and righly so. because of ethics. fine if you want to die do it. dont ask others to help. thats a line that should not be crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Not one person from the UK has been prosecuted for taking someone to Dignitas. As we see from the Law, it is open but still needs to be amended especially if there is burden of proof that the patient wanted to end their life to relieve suffering. It would not be in the public interest to haul a distraught husband, wife or child before the courts for helping their loved one fulfill their last wishes, that to be able to pass away with Dignity. This though does need to be underpinned so as not to discriminate. http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/assisted_suicide_policy.html The few I have met who have now passed on by taking their own lives have been fully prepared and had planned every part of their demise. They did so before they had to get help, knowing that if they did, they could be putting someone at risk of further hurt. as 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
as Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 your last paragraph really sums up the situation, Peat.The lack of a suitable law pushes patients into this situation, where they can not openly discuss their plans and say their Good Byes, because of fear of getting their family into trouble with the law.Preparations have to be made quietly and in secret. Is that "dignified"? I don't think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 and where would you draw the line. and who decides what is mercy killing and what is something criminal. say you decide on a 6mths death date. what happens if are 7 months or a year away are they then guilty of a crime. what about none terminal people. do you allow them the same rights. where again should a line be drawn. is it then fare to stop suicidal people from killing themselves. after all they have decided that their life is intolerable. what should be done to protect those being pressurized. think your an aged person who needs care and has to go into a home a lot will wish to be dead at this point is that ok.. simply put if allow it there is no line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffererof1crankymofo Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 paulb, you've mentioned non-terminally ill people and suicide. I don't think anyone has got any right to dictate to someone else that they can't take their own life. Whilst Scotland never had the law, it was illegal up until 50 odd years ago to attempt to commit suicide in England ('self murder'). It's their choice, no one else's, to make. as 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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