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Dignity


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^ As far as I'm concerned under 18's should be exempt from across the board assisted suicide legislation, the ethical and moral considerations in consideration there are quite different to adults and need addressing and legislating for quite seperately.

 

I'd choose whoever I felt I could trust to take the decision of when my death was the right thing to do, and the last people I'd choose for the job would be medical professionals. It was an arrangement that I had and have no issues with last I tried it as far as it went. The only reason I'm still here bugging the crap out of everybody is that given current legislation, I could not ask anyone to be pro-active in my demise, otherwise I'd been in my box a long time ago, and given where I was then, and the road to hell from there to now, I can't say it would have been an altogether bad thing.

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vastly different from and older sick person choosing to end their life

 

 

Which is what I thought this thread was about.

 

fwiw;

 

Playing the 'Nazi Germany' card is a bit of a thread killer and, so worn out that it's practically useless.

They were also not the only people/race to act in the manner you described.

 

Should such a situation ever arise, I wonder if YOU would be on 'the list'.  Just remember "Soylent Green is made from people"  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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are you saying you have had not one minute of pleasure or joy since then.

 

In the 6 1/2 years up to that point, and for at least the 2+ years afterwards, nope every second was a pure living hell. Since then, yes, there have been times, albeit very occasional and equally short that could possibly be filed under "fun". Can they adequately compensate for are the others that still fall short of that, or remain a living hell? Extremely doubtful, and that's on a good day? If I were to be "perfect" tomorrow and remain so until I died in my bed of extreme old age, could that ever adequately compensate for all the lost years of living hell? Absolutely not.

 

That's hardly the point though, as I see it. It should have been my choice, and should be every other adult's choice whether to take the chance that "things will get better" and hang in there whatever is dumped on you, or just check out. As it is, once I reached the point I couldn't organise and execute my own exit, I and everyone else in similar circumstances are forced to hang around regardless of how long or excruiatingly painful that may be.

 

We've outlawed just about all methods of one human inflicting physical pain upon another human unless in government envoked exceptional circumstances, we are expected, and considered cruel if we don't either relive an animal of pain and suffering by either treatment or putting them down, yet its supposed to be "okay" just to stand by and let another human suffer indefinitely just because the pain is caused naturally. That's more than just a little fu*ked up by my logic.

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you have the full legal right to refuse treatment. if your that sure then a living will would be best for you. there is a line were medicine tries to hard. 

 

colin i was not playing the nazi card i was warning there eugenics were not at first race related. they felt that they were doing the right thing,

 

belgium a modern liberal country has decided that a child can be killed if the doctors and there parents feel its in the childs best interests. that step is a major one. its only a small way from euthanasia for seriously disabled children. then where. im seriously worried were this slippy slope will lead. i dont want a doctor or next of kin deciding that my life is not worth living. even though i dont have a good life i still value it.

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Not quite true about that Paul, unless some sort of living will is in place, doctors can continue to prolong the suffering. With a living will, all but medical needs can be removed, pain management and oxygen will be provided. At your pre-determined will, you can starve yourself to death. Nice, eh?

 

As for the mention of eugenics, how TF did that get into this debate, who put it here?

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you have the full legal right to refuse treatment.

 

This one falls apart when a significant part of the reason a person is incapable of undertaking their own exit is due to slipping in to unconsciousness or semi-consciousness.

 

Then the input of others is (in practice, whether or not legally) is virtually disregarded unless some unquestionable (if such a thing exists) legally binding documentation is produced, and doctors simply play it however they see fit.

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colin i was not playing the nazi card i was warning there eugenics were not at first race related. they felt that they were doing the right thing,

 

 

Don't want to sidetrack this thread but, are you sure?

 

As far as I am aware, the nazi's were already racially persecuting minorities when they started 'cleansing' their own.

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Perhaps the thresd title should have been 'Respect' not ;Dignity' as, there is no dignity in death.

 

Personally, I believe that if a person has sufficient awareness to decide in advance the timing/circumstances of their own death and, has given a disposition to a trusted friend/aquaintance then, there should be no reason, legal or otherwise, why these instructions should not be carried out.

 

The biggest problem I can see is that there is a certain arrogance within some parts of the medical profession who fruitlessly try to prolong a life way beyond it's natural boundaries.

Is it 'because they can' or, do they feel that they 'must'.  Either way, they are wrong.

 

If someone has expressed a wish to be allowed/helped to die at a certain point then, their wish should be respected.

 

Lets face it, humans are probably the only species on the planet where the majority (normally) get to die, relatively peacefully, in their own beds.  The rest, generally, tend to die a very violent and painful death at the hands of some predator.

We aren't that much different from animals but, we are able to make informed, conscious, choices.

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The biggest problem I can see is that there is a certain arrogance within some parts of the medical profession who fruitlessly try to prolong a life way beyond it's natural boundaries.

Is it 'because they can' or, do they feel that they 'must'.  Either way, they are wrong.

 

it tends to be younger hospital doctors and the odd consultant. the young ones mainly because they have not seen enough to know when to let go. the consultants because they believe they are god some seriously do think they are always right.  

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^ The reason for which can only lie with inadequate monitoring and management procedures within the NHS, which is exactly the same reason why I choose not to engage with NHS medical professionals at any level unless in the most extreme of circumstances, and most certainly would never consider allowing one anywhere near any decision regarding assisting in my suicide, if such circumstances should arise.

 

If the NHS would get their house in order and reign in the meglomaniacs and total incompetents in their ranks, the need to shout about rights and push legislation to support them would be greatly diminished.

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I don't know what to think on this topic. Once upon a time when I was younger, I used to believe that assisted death was the right way to go, but after being more involved, that is, having people close to me whom I've had to sit with at the end, I don't know if I can agree with it anymore. I have watched people whom the doctors have just written off, and would have let go, make the most amazing recoveries, and actually fight for life, and ended up maybe having a few more years of actually quite an acceptable standard of life. I feel that no one but the person involved should take a decision on whether a person should live, and that if they are unable to tell you what they want, then all efforts should be made to save them at all costs, otherwise it is murder. It is not whether we can bear to watch them, it is whether they want to survive or not, and you must never make someone feel that their life is not of value anymore.

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It is not whether we can bear to watch them, it is whether they want to survive or not,....

 

Exactly, selfish thoughts by others should be banished. The only considerations made by whoever finds themselves in a position of possibly having to pull the switch on someone else, should be based on what they know about the other person and from that judge what is the best way forward. To do anything else is very possibly morally bankrupt and very likely should be illegal.

 

It should also be up to the potential victim, and only them, to choose someone they trust to do exactly what they want done and when. One of the few negatives I foresee for legislating for such things, is that "the establishment" will inevitably try to "take over" the running of it, and with it the risk rises of folk feeling pressured in to things rather than it being something done in a time and place and in a way of their own making.

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