Racism in Shetland

[unlinkedstudent]

Is this actually a thread about racism or trial by internet as to what punishment/rehabilitation might be administered?

 

did you get an answer?

 

You started the thread, I await your answer.

 

You are, however, IMHO, coming across as being "holier than thou". For example, you couldn't even refer to someone being Thai - why not? Hell, does it matter where they were born? Oh, it doesn't, does it? So why mention it in the way you did instead of just quoting from the paper? Immediately you have put a label on someone and are distinguishing them from "being the norm" by commenting that they aren't from these shores. Blimey, we're all human beings (allegedly). Hell, she could well be of Thai descent but born in Shetland? Or is it that "Thailand" is a dirty word?

 

You mentioned the "doll" thread - and within it, if my memory serves me correctly, I commented therein that those raising the issue of racism and speaking on behalf of those suffering racism as being the same as colonial racism - in other words, certain academics would deem the fact that you started this thread as being racist because if the victim wanted it discussed on Shetlink, they could start it, not you - or did you ask them? Perish the thought that they might have their own voice and be capable of speaking for themselves.

 

It is these same academics advising Governments on what is and what isn't deemed as racist when drawing up policies so before you shoot me down in flames for even referring to the fact that adults can't even have a sensible debate about racism (Given that you chose to use a headline story as an example) just step back and think - in their eyes, SP, you are being racist. Now, how does that feel?

 

Racism exists everywhere and you'll never stamp it out. The more the "Thought Police" dictate how people should think, the more people rebel.

 

The guy was allegedly rude and abusive, and he appears to have admitted so. Why you can't just let the Court deal with it and have done with it beats me; after all, you quite often 'bang on' about procedures being in place to deal with other matters and encourage people to go through them so how come, in your opinion, this doesn't apply here?

[shetlandpeat]

Nothing really but a distraction.

 

The thread is about Racism in Shetland, that was denied to some degree else where. Not about me. Though perhaps it is easier for you to question my motives, ones I have already stated, again, than use your experience to comment about what you have seen in Shetland.

 

I made my comments on the case many many posts ago as regards your accusation. I believe I gave a fair and honest opinion and one that many would be happy to see. The crime is not alleged and the accused has pleaded guilty. What were the motives for you to use that sort of language?

 

There seems to be a reasonable input and I am sure it is being monitored.

 

The pole suggests that 2/3rds of those taken part have seen Racism in Shetland. Poles are happily used to prove other points, proof is not what I am after here but more the fact that folk do see, what they perceive as racism, as you know, in they eyes of the law, a criminal offence could have taken place.

 

 

 

-Fin-

[nortower]

Did you know that 90% of people charge in relation to last years riots around the the UK were coloured?

 

Arent you the same person that was upset about a Doll??

 

And does the name Kris Taylor mean anything to you.

 

If it doesnt, read about him, and then tell me why the rasict finger is pointed in one direction only!

[JohanofNess]

The pole suggests that 2/3rds of those taken part have seen Racism in Shetland. Poles are happily used to prove other points, proof is not what I am after here but more the fact that folk do see, what they perceive as racism, as you know, in they eyes of the law, a criminal offence could have taken place.

 

A shetlink poll is about as representative of the opinion of Shetland's population as a Sun editorial. The poll was also heavily biased to give a poor representation of Shetland, the two options were simply yes or no and the indication then given is that Shetland is racist. If you'd asked do you believe Shetland is more racist than anywhere else in the UK the result would have been different. It's not about racism being ok or acceptable it's about unfairly labelling a community with the racist tag when nowhere is especially better than anywhere else.

 

A criminal offence did take place, that is why the guy is appearing in court.

 

I'm sure your motives were simply highlighting something you found disgraceful but the thread reeks of sanctimony, you're highlighting an issue because you feel upset about it for a group you're not a member of. I can be outraged about the guys behaviour without you highlighting it and telling us all how you brought it up before. Racism exists everywhere Shetland in fact is better than Aberdeen from what I experience. Nobody should be expected to put up with any abuse but to scale the heights of the moral high ground and highlight how racist Shetland is when you live in England seems to me you should be spending your time highlighting it closer to home instead of coming all self righteous on a community you don't live in.

 

-Fin-

 

Somehow doubt that.

[Colin]

The pole suggests that 2/3rds of those taken part have seen Racism in Shetland. Poles are happily used to prove other points,

 

Does anyone else think that this is 'racist'?

[jambo6]

Shetland is most definately just as 'racist' as any other part of Scotland. I have had first hand experience of telling people i am offended by their openly expressed racist attitude and utterances, on a quite regular basis. I have to say i think it is worse in more recent years and I find it quite a sad reflection of our introverted view of the world on these islands.

 

In relation to whether it ir overt or whether it isd fueled by drink, etc, I don't know, but i agree with various comments above that using drink as an excuse for abuse is about as tedious as the abuse itself. Our local hired legal hands must get incredibly tired ofhaving to trot out the same old lines. For me, the underlying fact is racism is in the psychy - the drink or drugs is what has brought it out.

What it comes down to is pure ignorance, nothing less.

Let's also make sure everyone realises that there is a big difference between racism and xenophobia, so comment above about no difference between 'abuse' aimed at someones ethnicity and 'abuse/banter' about country/town/area that someone hails from is plain wrong - its not the same thing.

 

Instead of presenting this as a fact, maybe you could explain why it is, in your opinion, a fact. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but a lot of this seems very grey to me - how do you personally define racism if you believe its not rooted and entwined in xenophobia?

[shetlandpeat]

The pole suggests that 2/3rds of those taken part have seen Racism in Shetland. Poles are happily used to prove other points,

 

Does anyone else think that this is 'racist'?

 

ooops, should be written "Poll(s). Sorry

 

Less than 0.5% of the adult population of Shetland have taken part so far in the poll. Thank you. (SIC figures 2010 show there are 15,000 adults)

[Ghostrider]

As far as GRs comment, it is one I have answered before, so go and find out.

 

Link. 3598 posts and rising I'm no trawling through....it would be almost as bad as trawling trow me ain eens.

[Shoogler]

Shetland is most definately just as 'racist' as any other part of Scotland. I have had first hand experience of telling people i am offended by their openly expressed racist attitude and utterances, on a quite regular basis. I have to say i think it is worse in more recent years and I find it quite a sad reflection of our introverted view of the world on these islands.

 

In relation to whether it ir overt or whether it isd fueled by drink, etc, I don't know, but i agree with various comments above that using drink as an excuse for abuse is about as tedious as the abuse itself. Our local hired legal hands must get incredibly tired ofhaving to trot out the same old lines. For me, the underlying fact is racism is in the psychy - the drink or drugs is what has brought it out.

What it comes down to is pure ignorance, nothing less.

Let's also make sure everyone realises that there is a big difference between racism and xenophobia, so comment above about no difference between 'abuse' aimed at someones ethnicity and 'abuse/banter' about country/town/area that someone hails from is plain wrong - its not the same thing.

 

Instead of presenting this as a fact, maybe you could explain why it is, in your opinion, a fact. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but a lot of this seems very grey to me - how do you personally define racism if you believe its not rooted and entwined in xenophobia?

 

Its a valid point and i am no phycologist, but i suppose i was referring to the points in the discussion that related to incidences of calling someone a Welsh, English, Irish etc, soandso, and comparing this to the issue initially raised by the OP, which was abusing someone purely on the grounds of their ethnicity/skin colour.

It may well be symptomatic of the same thing at the core of that behaviour, i don't know. But I have always considered it to be different. I accept what people say about how stereotypes are used either in jest or in more forthright terms and that this is a lower scale of 'abuse' in some cases. I also accept that there needs to be an element of vitriol or hate in the way this is portrayed before it is much of an issue so am not flogging a PC line at all.

I have heard quite a few hate filled racist outbursts in Shetland, along with the knockabout tendency toward racist jokes, which are at opposite ends of a spectrum, but within all that there is plenty underlying racism.

 

Going back to the main point however, it is ultimately caused by ignorance and no worse in Shetland than other parts of Scotland.

[shetlandpeat]

GR - I have the time for you to go through them, 3599 now, be quick.

 

nortower, I am under the belief the term "coloured" may be frowned upon, it is certainly an out dated term, unless you are out dated. The guy you quote seems to be a reasonably successfully football player.

What is the meaning behind your first sentence.

Did you see where I posted about the racial tensions I witnessed in the South? There have been problems for decades, from my memory it was Indians and Pakistanis. This dates back to 1975. Now, it is many races.

On a +ve note, it has brought a great diversity of cultures to these shores. I used to love living in Southall, as well as Lewisham and Lee. I was not however the person I mentioned before.

[unlinkedstudent]

The pole suggests that 2/3rds of those taken part have seen Racism in Shetland. Poles are happily used to prove other points, proof is not what I am after here but more the fact that folk do see, what they perceive as racism, as you know, in they eyes of the law, a criminal offence could have taken place.

 

A shetlink poll is about as representative of the opinion of Shetland's population as a Sun editorial. The poll was also heavily biased to give a poor representation of Shetland, the two options were simply yes or no and the indication then given is that Shetland is racist. If you'd asked do you believe Shetland is more racist than anywhere else in the UK the result would have been different. It's not about racism being ok or acceptable it's about unfairly labelling a community with the racist tag when nowhere is especially better than anywhere else.

 

A criminal offence did take place, that is why the guy is appearing in court.

 

I'm sure your motives were simply highlighting something you found disgraceful but the thread reeks of sanctimony, you're highlighting an issue because you feel upset about it for a group you're not a member of. I can be outraged about the guys behaviour without you highlighting it and telling us all how you brought it up before. Racism exists everywhere Shetland in fact is better than Aberdeen from what I experience. Nobody should be expected to put up with any abuse but to scale the heights of the moral high ground and highlight how racist Shetland is when you live in England seems to me you should be spending your time highlighting it closer to home instead of coming all self righteous on a community you don't live in.

 

-Fin-

 

Somehow doubt that.

 

 

SP, I refuse to answer your poll; in fact, given that you can't have the decency to answer the points I raised, why on earth should I do what you appear to be insisting upon and want me to state what racism I've seen (or not, as the case may be) in Shetland? Instead of answering a question with a question (typical Politician behaviour), you might get a better response and be treated with more respect if you did have the good grace to answer questions posed to you. Whilst you desist from doing so, I fail to see how you can be taken seriously.

 

Either you want to discuss/debate or you don't. Are we discussing racism in Shetland on what your interpretation of what racism is or what the academics deem it to be? If the latter, as previously stated, you are the one being racist.

[peerie t]

Yes, there is a lot of racism in Shetland - more worrying to me personally than the "I only said cos I was drunk" culture is perhaps the blatant ignorance of what actually IS a racist term, for example are any of you going out this week for a chinky because you're black fantin?

[shetlandpeat]

SP, I refuse to answer your poll; in fact, given that you can't have the decency to answer the points I raised, why on earth should I do what you appear to be insisting upon and want me to state what racism I've seen (or not, as the case may be) in Shetland? Instead of answering a question with a question (typical Politician behaviour), you might get a better response and be treated with more respect if you did have the good grace to answer questions posed to you. Whilst you desist from doing so, I fail to see how you can be taken seriously.

 

Either you want to discuss/debate or you don't. Are we discussing racism in Shetland on what your interpretation of what racism is or what the academics deem it to be? If the latter, as previously stated, you are the one being racist.

 

The question is as it stands, have you seen racism in Shetland? Not complicated, 3 options, sorry there are none to support what you want to say.

 

I answered your post.

 

All your own opinion.

 

It is not my interpretation but what folk have seen and is there a way to reduce it and to stop folk being abused, in their eyes.

 

How am I being racist?

 

The existing law defines racism, not me.

 

Really, this has nothing to do with my views, I have asked folks to comment on theirs.

 

Pointless comment I think, but that is my opinion about your comment and not the question I asked.

[jambo6]

Shetland is most definately just as 'racist' as any other part of Scotland. I have had first hand experience of telling people i am offended by their openly expressed racist attitude and utterances, on a quite regular basis. I have to say i think it is worse in more recent years and I find it quite a sad reflection of our introverted view of the world on these islands.

 

In relation to whether it ir overt or whether it isd fueled by drink, etc, I don't know, but i agree with various comments above that using drink as an excuse for abuse is about as tedious as the abuse itself. Our local hired legal hands must get incredibly tired ofhaving to trot out the same old lines. For me, the underlying fact is racism is in the psychy - the drink or drugs is what has brought it out.

What it comes down to is pure ignorance, nothing less.

Let's also make sure everyone realises that there is a big difference between racism and xenophobia, so comment above about no difference between 'abuse' aimed at someones ethnicity and 'abuse/banter' about country/town/area that someone hails from is plain wrong - its not the same thing.

 

Instead of presenting this as a fact, maybe you could explain why it is, in your opinion, a fact. I'm not saying I agree or disagree but a lot of this seems very grey to me - how do you personally define racism if you believe its not rooted and entwined in xenophobia?

 

Its a valid point and i am no phycologist, but i suppose i was referring to the points in the discussion that related to incidences of calling someone a Welsh, English, Irish etc, soandso, and comparing this to the issue initially raised by the OP, which was abusing someone purely on the grounds of their ethnicity/skin colour.

It may well be symptomatic of the same thing at the core of that behaviour, i don't know. But I have always considered it to be different. I accept what people say about how stereotypes are used either in jest or in more forthright terms and that this is a lower scale of 'abuse' in some cases. I also accept that there needs to be an element of vitriol or hate in the way this is portrayed before it is much of an issue so am not flogging a PC line at all.

I have heard quite a few hate filled racist outbursts in Shetland, along with the knockabout tendency toward racist jokes, which are at opposite ends of a spectrum, but within all that there is plenty underlying racism.

 

Going back to the main point however, it is ultimately caused by ignorance and no worse in Shetland than other parts of Scotland.

 

My own take on it is this, and its not informed by much more than watching a lot of Nicky Campbell on Sundays so feel free to rip it apart. Racism is an expression of xenophobia, a subset if you like as it focuses on race and ethnicity rather than the wider scope of xenophobia. For most people though racism is rooted in the wider xenophobia - a fear and distrust of what they perceive as immigrants and incomers threatening their ways, rather than a dislike based purely on origin and skin colour.

 

Thats why I see it as grey, I dont think there is a huge difference between racism and, if you like, "regionalism". In the past people would fight with people from other streets, villages, towns - any pretext to get together and fight over perceived differences, there is a violent streak in human nature that is innate, especially in men, and Shetland has excelled in this area in the past.

 

I think the *real* big difference is the way we are being trained to react to racism by the people driving the racist agenda vs no-one really cares about regionalism as the British have a deep-seated sense of "sticks & stones". I'm not knocking the drive against racism here. If I came from another ethnic background I'm sure I would see things very acutely and be citing the many huge inequalities people have suffered in the past in Britain as reason for zero tolerance. It now seems though that our attitude towards racism sticks out like a sore thumb against the wider spectrum of xenophobia which is really odd if stop to consider the subject as a whole.

[jambo6]

Yes, there is a lot of racism in Shetland - more worrying to me personally than the "I only said cos I was drunk" culture is perhaps the blatant ignorance of what actually IS a racist term, for example are any of you going out this week for a chinky because you're black fantin?

 

Interesting point - I've never actually thought about the meaning of black fantin until you posted this.

 

I would guess it's origins are anything but racist - Hungry as an African would be its direct translation, and when you consider how many poor-plates the church-going folk of Shetland have had thrust under their noses over the past 150 or so years its easy to see where it came from.