How Safe is Your Hospital

[Mistymaud]

There is no specialist in Shetland - there is no specialist in Scotland.

There are no guidelines for treating it in Scotland.

 

The problem is that non of the haematologists, neurologists, GPs understand anything about it. Seriously.

That's why I put the link up in the first place.

 

I spoke to a consultant who gave me a lovely lecture on subacute degeneration of the spinal cord - but he didn't know what the symptoms were....

Serious damage from b12 deficiency is something they think they never see - but they rarely test for it - and if they do they just test serum b12 levels. Anything will put those right. You can eat 2oz liver and it will put your serum levels right. It means nothing.

 

My concern in respect of this thread is that if this very common illness is constantly being missed because patient's are 'headed off' at the first hurdle - what else is being missed? It can't just be b12 deficiency.

Where are the common denominators being picked up? They aren't.

 

What happens if patients phone up to say they have a problem - they get put through to someone who confidently explains they are 'not a clinician.' Soooooo, why are they in the job? Why is a patient's first point of contact when it comes to health care concerns, an admin bod?

The answer actually is obvious: because these people are put in place to deflect attack (and they do consider a complaint an attack) that's all they are there for. They are not there to get to the root cause of the problem. They aren't listening, they are in protection mode. And they will do what they need to do to meet their objective.

 

Make no mistake, I have no respect for these people whatsoever - the only comfort I get is in knowing that b12 deficiency affects about 1 in 3 people. It probably contributes to the demise of these people in numerous ways: heart attack, stroke, some cancers, and the neurological degenerative conditions. So, the fool that is following orders and deflecting resolution of the problem, has a reasonable chance of dying from the condition themselves.

[shetlandpeat]

The fact there is a deficiency shows that there is a lacking in diets, I would imagine some may have medical problems that cause this, however, I cannot see that someone doing a job of work should be hated, has no bearing on the problem, does it? They do not take the job as some sort of ling term plot to annoy folk, they do it to earn a wage and have perhaps support a family. The problem is that there are folk with piss poor diets.

 

Anyone who knows how these sorts of thing work will realise that it is not reported as a cause of death or a contribitary factor. So, it will get little funding. Now, if a family member knows that there is a deficiency, and it is a contributary factor, or could be, they should make that known about the deceased.

 

We have an ongoing campaign here about brain tumours, especially in the young, what we found is that if a sufferer dies in hospital, it is reported as a contributory factor or tha cause, however, as many victims either die in a hospice or at home, it is not reported. This has lead to a tiny 0.7% portion of research funding goint ito finding out about the biggest cancer killer of children in the UK.

 

Other agencies should be involved, schools and the like can help. Change the route cause.

 

There are threads on GPs.

Edited October 15, 2013 by shetlandpeat

[Mistymaud]

It's got nothing to do with diet - nothing at all.

Even vegetarians should easily get the RDA without supplementing.

Vegans - different ball game - but since they don't account for 1 in 3 of the population then it's a malabsorption issue.

 

I agree it needs funding. I agree it needs recording (as in your situation) but since b12 deficiency is no longer seen as a cause of death and b12 cannot be patented - it will never get funding.

Much more profitable for drug companies to treat something else.

 

You're quite right, the admin bods do do it to pay the mortgage - but it's their kids that die too. They aren't exempt. And with the best will in the world, they know exactly what they are doing for their money, they know they are contributing to other's misery - but they don't realise how much they are contributing to their own.

 

And it still brings us back to the main point which is 'How Safe is Your Hospital?' Are we now to assume that it's okay to cover things up because a few individuals have a mortgage to pay? Wouldn't it be better if those individuals were employed to actually resolve issues not hide them? It's the same money?

Wouldn't that make our hospitals safer? Wouldn't it progress medicine in general?

Surely we are not now going to be happy with the alternative just because some people need to be kept in jobs?

[Mistymaud]

... and ShetlandPeat - if you haven't watched the video link I put up, please try to. I've just seen another post of yours.

 

Not wanting to hijack the thread or knock it off track - important subject and all that.

[shetlandpeat]

If it is an important subject, start a thread!

 

I wonder how an "admin" will dictate the workings of the NHS with regard to cover ups.

 

Anyhow, it is about diet, if the CAUSE can be controlled then the deficiency will deminish.

 

The black and white video? The one showing someone eating liver?

 

If you were to look at the "liver" shelf in your supermarket you will find is quite small.

 

At the same time as attacking working folk and NHS bosses, your target should also be prevention.

 

Sorry for "hijacking" the thread with my views...

Edited October 15, 2013 by shetlandpeat

[shetlandpeat]

nope all staff were made to sign that document a couple of years ago. the choice was to either sign or lose your job. the gagging order is similar to that on the council staff.

 

 

Perhaps this sort of action by managers will explain why folk do as they are told, contract and all that.

 

Even with the strictest regime, bullying will go on. It has been, from my experience very hard to get a result in such cases. Much of the bullying is done one on one, a lack of folk willing to testify is another problem.

I am dealing with a case of this at the moment, it is very upsetting for those who are the victims.

Hospitals are going through some changes, even reading the reasonings behind the "NEW" GBH can change the outcome. I am not sure if Paul could answer this, but the NHS is outsourcing/privatising departments, like pathology. You only have to look at the tender lists on the NHS site (Google it) to see how much is being given away, the hospital may then charge rent (we do not know because of buisiness confidentiality), this could mean that the department may want to look for cheaper accomodation.

Edited October 15, 2013 by shetlandpeat

[Mistymaud]

Erm - I thought this thread was about how safe are your hospitals - or are we concerned only with if we record if people trip and fall etc - Are we discussing H&S issues.

 

And the film that you watched was the second one - and if you actually watched it you can see they don't 'look' small, they give the weights - and they aren't 'small.'

 

And the first link that I put in was about b12 deficiency - the one where it shows people are suffering from malabsorption issues, aren't being treated or tested and are developing illnesses such as dementia. I think I read in another thread that your father has dementia?

 

This isn't about cover-ups, it's about ignorance and how it affects the safety of treatment and patients and medicine.

 

Gagging clauses allow this to happen and, no matter what you think, and what the logic is behind how you think, the NHS is there for the benefit of the patients, not the staff - patients have mortgages to pay too.

[Mistymaud]

Maybe Shetlandpeat you could explain, to me if no one else, why you think gagging is acceptable within the health sector rather than why it is accepted by the individuals concerned?

i.e. what positive function relative to healthcare does it perform?

[shetlandpeat]

Check why this thread was started.

 

I do not support gagging orders so I am unable to comment on your questions but could assume it is to protect the machine from its self.

 

I still think that more should be done on prevention. Alas, this will always be difficult especially as folks are having to consider cutting back. Manufacturers can make a difference with their produce and Governments at all levels should be involved.

 

I have still yet to understand the attack on admin staff, how it fits with the B12 issue but I would be interested in the responses from various health authorities to your questions. If you could provide those as well as the myriad of fact, fiction and fantasy Google can provide I could then give a more defined answer and of course move this in my area and feed back. I will also do that without abusing this staff (you may find folk may be more amenable to helping)

Edited October 16, 2013 by shetlandpeat

[Mistymaud]

Staff that abuse the system, the one that patients expect and are promised, leave themselves open to abuse. ie the system exists to put a problem right, yet does exactly the opposite.

 

And I will ask you again, what positive function can gagging possibly exist for? If there is none, why defend it in any way shape or form?

 

And I will edit to ask: what on earth is 'protect the machine from itself' supposed to mean?

 

And I'm also editing to ask - I've not asked anyone for any help. I put my original thread up to help others - it doesn't help me any????

Edited October 16, 2013 by Mistymaud

[Mistymaud]

Your attitude also brings forth another point - in a small community, to attack somebody, to apportion blame, means it's usually someone that everyone knows. People are scared to do that for fear of getting shouted down, for not getting good healthcare in future, for fear of personal recriminations. The person who has caused the problem is usually in a relative position of power in such circumstances, the patient usually has none.

Hence, people put up and shut up - but by doing so, they leave everyone open to poorer care in future.

[shetlandpeat]

I cannot see where I do defend gagging. If you check back, you will see that I oppose gagging in the way it has been done in the NHS. However, there are times when contractual silence is required. You would not want your healthcare worker telling other folks about you, I think not. If it is in the public interest that a whistleblower outs a corrupt procedure, they should be applauded. During the Coastguard dispute, officers had their civil service levels increased, this was to stop them from talking to anyone about their work, luckily, I managed to interview the Union Reps and get a good insight into the functions of the Shetland Coastguards and what the closure could mean.

Your last post shows that to mount a campaign, you need to find out information for yourself. I have said I would promote the lack of Bit B12 if there was some anecdotal evidence and some one had started an educated and Well informed campaign.

People also come to forums and moan about stuff as well. Allas, that in many cases does little to forward the issue to a positive outcome for all.

First you need to find out the answers to questions you want to ask, you also need to have a series of. Supplementary question depending on the answer given. You should always know the answer to the first question you ask, that way, you cannot be fobbed off because of your own lack of research. Hence why I asked what answers have you already been given to the questions you have already asked of the areas healthcare and the wider public.

Edited October 16, 2013 by shetlandpeat

[Mistymaud]

I think you may be getting patient confidentiality and gagging clauses, confused.

No one is applauding gossip.

What we are talking about is gagging whistleblowers - that's what gagging clauses are about.

 

When it comes to the B12 and you supporting research etc etc - if you actually bother to watch the films - the second one you glanced for instance - those guys were Nobel Prize winners.

If you watch the first, you will find one of the victims is a GP.- who is actually standing out and saying even he got it wrong. We also have scientists from the US and specialist researchers  - biochemists etc.

For people who've actually bothered to watch the film I think they would realise that I didn't come on for a little moan and the evidence is provided by specialists in the field.

I could be wrong but I think your comments are actually making you look quite foolish.

However be reassured that I am quite used to people commenting on this subject with the most bizarre statements because they know little about it and believe that everyone else is as ignorant. Good job we aren't really.

[shetlandpeat]

The films have done their job as in highlighting the issue, what needs to happen now is action, that is why I have asked, as someone who appears pasionate about this, what questions have you asked and what were the answers, I asume you have been looking into this.

 

The film, is dated, it was the minute it was produced, the information will be correct at the time, I agree, but as the campaign, which you are pushing, progresses, things change, they move on.

 

Any how, I will move to the correct thread.

[shetlandpeat]

I think you may be getting patient confidentiality and gagging clauses, confused.

No one is applauding gossip.

What we are talking about is gagging whistleblowers - that's what gagging clauses are about.

 

 

HOW?

 

I cannot see where I do defend gagging. If you check back, you will see that I oppose gagging in the way it has been done in the NHS. However, there are times when contractual silence is required. You would not want your healthcare worker telling other folks about you, I think not. If it is in the public interest that a whistleblower outs a corrupt procedure, they should be applauded. During the Coastguard dispute, officers had their civil service levels increased, this was to stop them from talking to anyone about their work,..............